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NetIQ to buy WebPosition (First Place Software)

Just got an email



2:03 pm on Apr 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator skibum is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

WOW! This could lead to some interesting things if they can combine analytics and rankings.....

Haven't seen a press release yet.


2:10 pm on Apr 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Is it possible that WPG may actually get an update?

WPG (in my opinion) has not kept up with the SEs. I have spoken with them about this, but nothing has ever happened.


2:15 pm on Apr 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator bakedjake is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Press Release:



4:03 pm on Apr 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

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WPG is still one of the most used, and most popular programs for checking visibility. This will be interesting -


11:55 am on Apr 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Either way, I'll bet it will be expensive.

WebTrends pricing/licensing is very costly and I for one shed a small tear to see WPG assimilated.

I hope they maintain the Page Critic - I always found this useful and they better GUARANTEE that the Reporter will not get you banned from Google this time.

RIP WPG. You will be missed by me. :(


5:18 am on Apr 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



7:04 am on Apr 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Perhaps WPG sounds good on paper.

I'm not sure what it has to do with current SEM practice, however. On-page is dead, as is submission, and rank checking is of questionable value.


8:12 am on Apr 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

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"WOW! This could lead to some interesting things if they can combine analytics and rankings....."

ThinkMetrics have been offering this for ages with their InSite Gold product.


9:39 am on Apr 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

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First Place is going to get (I assume) a big, fat, 7 figure paycheck... for software which has antiquated features, and that's being kind. You could hire a freelancer to code a much better program/script in under a week. Hmm, I should learn how to mass market a mediocre product (at best), so I can grab my own fat payoff :)


4:15 pm on Apr 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

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As I read it, WPG will not go away, neither will the price change. This leads me to believe that there will be a plug-in to purchase/download if you already use both Webtrends and WPG, in order to tie the two together for the analysis/ranking benefit. So, if you are a Webtrebds user, this is great. If you aren't, you just still get the benefits you always have from using WPG.


1:03 am on Apr 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I hope you are right. However, these mergers/takeovers often start off lulling everyone into a false sense of security (to use a cliche) but occasionally eventually end up changing the whole setup.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was making the world think he didnt exist" ;)

Only time will tell...


4:10 pm on Apr 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

I feel that WebTrends should have stuck to what it does best, web metrics.

If they cannot negotiate contracts with the search engines to allow their users to query the database for rankings then they will be in the same boat that WPG was before the merger.

I for one am not real pleased with the merger. I've been an avid supporter of WTL since it first launched. We are now moving into another live reporting program (DeepMetrix) as I just don't feel comfortable with the NetIQ/WPG marriage.

Something tells me that WTL users are going to be in for a rough ride (those who choose to utilize the WPG portion of the package). There will most likely be a footprint somewhere in the WTL code that flags it as a WPG user. It would be very easy for the SEs to determine which sites are querying its database (without explicit permission).

We all know what happens when the SEs find a distinguishable footprint for software that is abusive on their database. ;)


10:13 pm on Apr 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Just returned from Orlando where the NetIQ conference was taking place and when we heard of the acquisition we were shocked actually. We happened to sit on the plane with several WebTrends employees and once they found out we were SEMs they wanted to get our reaction to the announcement, I'm guessing thinking that we would be pleased with the news.

I think they were a little dismayed at our reaction - especially when I stated that perhaps enough due diligence had not been done, and that I wondered if Net IQ had seen Google's guidlelines for webmasters:


"Don't use unauthorized computer programs to submit pages, check rankings, etc. Such programs consume computing resources and violate our terms of service. Google does not recommend the use of products such as WebPosition Gold™ that send automatic or programmatic queries to Google."

WPG is specifically named here. I wonder if the frequency of IP blocking will increase from the new users of WPG (from WebTrends) who are unaware of Google's policy and how Google plans to deal with this.



10:13 pm on Apr 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Equity (and others) if you don't use WPG because of Google's objections, how do you get an idea of ranks? Manually?


10:30 pm on Apr 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Google needs to be more reasonable about this. Seems to me there should be a way for us to know how our site ranks. Maybe Google plans to charge us for it, eventually. I use WPG in "slow" mode with extremely long pauses between queries and feel I'm justified in getting the information.


10:59 pm on Apr 11, 2004 (gmt 0)


Through analytics and careful keyword research.

I typically deal with enterprise-level large scale web properties so WPG really isn't much help since its typically only good for a small number of keyphrases (one of my clients has traffic driven by over 85,000 keyphrases). Also, if you have a web analytics program that can handle these type of properties, say Omniture or Coremetrics, you are getting a lot more information that tells you a whole lot more than a WPG report.

By focusing on traffic, conversion and ROI, instead of rankings, I can see the type of traffic that drives commerce. I rely instead on keyword research programs such as WordTracker in combination with Overture and Google Adwords to determine competitiveness and pricing (value of a keyphrase). I may run WPG on a select number of phrases to get an idea of where a client is at before I begin, but I don't do a continuous monitoring of keyphrases to determine success. I also run it on AOL or Netscape to give me an idea of where Google is at and do it at night via a dial up so I don't risk an IP ban. I've got friends in this industry who have been banned from Google from their IP and I don't want to take a chance with it.



12:08 am on Apr 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is probably bad news for most of us, especially small business. WebTrends is incredibly high priced. Originally they were low priced and over the yrs kept on raising prices until they were 1000% higher as time went by, and mostly catering to large firms due to their pricing structure.

WebTrends cust service is also alleged to be very poor. I gave up waiting for replies on possibly buying an upgrade to the old program, my several emails were ignored. Contrarily, WebPosition always offered good cust serv and support.

It's possible WebPosition has thrown in the towel as there are hardly any search engines left to submit to anymore. Their submission list was very long several yrs ago, last time I submitted there were only 3 SE's to submit to and Google's dominated that very small submission list.


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