Forum Moderators: not2easy
Did you guys realize that in schools (Universities) the way they teach you to design a site in Web Design class is by making it in Photoshop and doing all your text in Photoshop and then slicing it up and exporting it to HTML.
Have they ever heard of search engines and online marketing before? ...what if you want to change your ad copy or change the spelling of a word? ...into the PSD file you go and export it again.
This is current as of Spring quarter 2002. I haven't taken a design class since then (plus the teacher always asked me how to do things) and switched my major to business.
Isn't it funny how we promote people to the highest level of their incompetence?
the way they teach you to design a site in Web Design class...
You took a web design class? They didn't offer web design classes when I was in college. hehehe...
But hey, good for them! That just makes the whole business endof things easier for those of us willing to teach ourselves. :)
[edited by: korkus2000 at 7:22 pm (utc) on Nov. 14, 2002]
[edit reason] Clean up of splice [/edit]
I think it differs from class to class, uni to uni, etc. I was forced to hand code my first web page! :(
I hated it, but it shoved me into HTML quickly and is useful for editing these days.
JOAT
In Graphic Design class that's what we did.
In Programming 109 or whatever that stupid class was we had to hand code tables and forms and all that nice stuff.
The problem is there wasn't enough cross training the geeks took the Programming classes and made ugly pages by hand coding everything (at least their source was clean though). The Designers made impractical web site layouts.
I think if you have a problem with your curriculem then you should talk to the department head.
fine art courses often have a strong conceptual art element...the people who deal with this often have a very good understanding of how the web works as a medium
when commissioning a basic site design I normally choose an art course graduate over a graphic design graduate
I have to spend the next couple of years studying something that I'm not really into just to get a piece of paper that'll represent lots of debt. It'd be so great if there was a way to get a degree for doing web work like the stuff I do. There's no way I'd design, and computer science stuff is way out of my league - and Internet Marketing just doesn't exist in a curriculum. Bummer.
The biggest problem I find right now while sorting through job aps from graduating students is they aren't taught very well on how to build a successful portfolio. Very many show great artistic talent and lots of potential. However, if you want to be an artist that's great. We designers are all sell outs though not necessarily artist. We sell our artistic talents and adapt them to please the employer. I want to be able to see that flexibility when I see someone's portfolio. I don't just want to see great art.
A good example would be a 600k graphic laid out in PS that is a mock up for a new techno music type site. I want to be able to see something with real world applications. Show me how you can have dynamic text be generated into a table while the image is a background. If they can explain that to me that's fine most are just "um ...but it's a graphic ...I heard you can um javascript it to change the image". ...I've had an experience with an employee like that before he was a great artist and always did great work but it wasn't practical. i.e. a 64k ad banner may be great art but it sure as hell isn't going to make it into anyone's ad banner rotation because it's over 11k. (duh)
I tend to see very clear strengths and very clear weaknesses. I don't see very well rounded graduates that demonstrate the ability to effectively combine both HTML and Graphics/Flash to deliver a site that would for example be e-commerce capable.
More nit picking: Portfolios are not always hosted on their own domain name. If they don't want to spend $50.00 as an investment on their own domain name with a years worth of hosting I don't want to spend my time on viewing their geocities.com site. I mean be proud of your work don't store it in a dumpster.
The standard emails I get include typo's (look at this example)
I have extensive knowledge in Web Design/Html, Macromedia Flash MX (even Actionscripting and Skinning), Photoshop, Illustrator, Quark, and Pagemaker. Not to mention i have a keen eye for detail, and also do a lot of freehand drawing and photography.
The bad thing is (at least in the Seattle area) is that it's almost impossible for a very experienced designer to find a job. Our County library system is looking for an Art Director/Graphic Designer in one with a college degree 6+ years of experience and is offering $22.00. That's sad that kids graduating college are going to be competing with seasoned designers for such lousy paying jobs. I wish there was some kind of prep class for them before they hit the real world looking for a job.
That's why I'm just going to get a business degree. I just need something to hang on my office wall for God's sake. :)
Suck it up, pass the course, then do it your way, you've already sussed enough to know that design is not the same as SEO, but you will have a feather in your cap, hence be able to design sharp looking sites, then its just a matter of intertwinning the SEO into the design skills you pick up.
This brings up point number one of this thread, to survive as a graphic artist out there you need to know a little of everything. I don't get hired just for my designs. I get hired because of my knowledge of SEO, Usability, ASP, JavaScript, XHTML, and XSL. I am able to work with the programmers when design time is slow. I think thats what employers are looking for. If you have a lot of abilities then you can get programmer wages.
In the 80s a lot of kids wanted to draw comic books. The comic book industry was flooded by artist. It slowly died down and all of a suddened kids wanted to create 3D animation. Now its the web. In the future who knows. As the web grows it is the other things you offer that will make you valuable.
I think school should be to learn concepts. If you want to learn photoshop or flash then go to a 3 day course. School should teach you how to understand and solve problems with whatever area you are in. Tools are tools. It is the theory behind what you do that is important.
Very many show great artistic talent and lots of potential. However, if you want to be an artist that's great. We designers are all sell outs though not necessarily artist.
Selling out is taking money against what you believe in. I don't really see graphic design as selling out. We use our talents and our skills to provide a service. We need to put food on the table. I still find time to work on my installations and fine art. My main job right now is creating icons. I find this the most fulfilling and tasking job. I get 16 x 16 pixels and 256 colors, sometimes 16 colors, to create something. I find the constraints perfect to expand my creativity. After about a thousand you really start to tap your creative abilities.
We use our talents and our skills to provide a service. We need to put food on the table.
I completely 100% agree but the "starving artist" who's probably only going to be famous after he/she dies and becomes the next Seurat would likely disagree. Do you kind of get what I'm saying. ...that from an artistic perspective in the whole schme and history of art we're not doing much.
that from an artistic perspective in the whole schme and history of art we're not doing much.
I understand what you are saying but I will have to disagree. We are exploring a new medium and what we do now will shape the future of art. The ones who do it really well will be remembered. I studied mostly video in school and the people who pushed that art form, in its infancy, felt the same as you at the time. Just because you make money now doesn't mean you are not building the foundation of a very lasting art form. It is how you implement yourself in your design that makes it true art.
korkus2000:I think school should be to learn concepts. If you want to learn photoshop or flash then go to a 3 day course. School should teach you how to understand and solve problems with whatever area you are in. Tools are tools. It is the theory behind what you do that is important.
It's like the movie goodwill hunting.... don't spend thousands of dollars in school when you can learn the same thing from a library.
Someone who is actually working in web development and is good at it would in many cases take a pay cut if they took a teaching position. This poses a serious problem for the quality of what is taught in colleges everywhere.
