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Why do I bother continuing to advertise on Yahoo?

when the quality of affiliates has sunk so low



9:48 pm on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

For my biggest client: the YSM cost per click on the primary keyword has fallen by two thirds in the past two years. Good, right? No. Spending is unchanged because there are more clicks than ever.

I just took a detailed look at traffic sources for the past week. 20% of YSM clicks came from parked domains. It's out of control.

Two years ago I figured 25-30% of YSM clicks were from MSN and 30-35% were from Yahoo.com - the rest were from other affiliates. Yes there was fraud, but we were willing to live with it as a cost of doing business and as a cost of getting quality MSN and Yahoo traffic.

Now 0% is from MSN and by my calculation, fewer than 6% of YSM visits came from Yahoo.com last week. Sure the price per click is down, but is it worth it to pay this much for fraud just to get Yahoo.com traffic?

I just wrote up a detailed analysis for the client. We are seriously considering dropping YSM.


10:02 pm on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member sem4u is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

fewer than 6% of YSM visits came from Yahoo.com last week

That is ridiculous - it should be 80-90% IMO after MSN have switched to their new PPC system.


10:07 pm on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member

hi beren

just a question, what would you call an acceptable cost per lead,, to give you some background, this is for a product you can't charge more than 20/$30 for , in a severely competitive market,

hope I am not being impertinent, I had a minuscle campaign with ysm, paid out off my own pocket,, cost me $40/25 per lead, I gave up pretty sharpish :)


11:05 pm on Jun 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

Stop advertising with them completely about 4 months ago; we have been spending $40,000 a month from 2003-2005. I kept telling them we'd leave unless we could find a way to be credited for the ridiculous clicks so we stopped. My Diamond Level account manager has called me 4 times begging us to come back.


12:50 am on Jun 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I'd have to agree. Having a similar situation at the moment. There is one "trusted" search partner sending me 30% of all my Overture traffic. This "trusted" search partner has been around a year and is literally a complete unknown. The traffic is clearly coming through a click-bot and my logs prove it.

However, I've made feeble attempts to simply ask YSM to just block my ads from their site. I'm not even looking for a refund, I just don't want the fraudulent traffic. They've given me a runaround about their click fraud protection, passing it on to loss prevention, etc. I just want my ads to stop appearing on that site. They are free to screw my competitors all they want. Still, this has been nearly an impossible task.

They are a necessary evil though and it's hard to pull ads. However, I can't bid as much on the terms that are sending the click bot traffic. I've gotten to the point that I feel they actually want these kind of sites pulling in more revenue for them and hoping most webmasters will be too naive to care.


8:44 am on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Bears, you've hit it on the head.


1:22 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

beren writes:
" ...I just took a detailed look at traffic sources for the past week. 20% of YSM clicks came from parked domains. It's out of control. ..."
- - -
And it's Growing allmost Daily! Parked domains currently fed by y and g are a Booming Business right now in the paid to read email biz, there are complex 'profit sharing' setups, what folks in the ptr biz call 'forced search sites', wherein the ptr po doesn't Pay the member, if they Don't Finish the 40 to 70 paid searches per day, most ALL of this stuff now is fueled by the parking companies, it's a free for all.

Any of you can very easily Verify this, simply by checking them out for yourselves, no need to take my humble word for it, it is Rampant, and it's in Plain Public View, has been for Months Now. Absolutely Amazing.

they've been living off the 2nd tier for over 3 years now, that I can Understand, but Never dreamed I'd see g and y let this go on so long and so blatently.

The parked domains started hitting the ptr circuit in mass around late 2005, and have from there spawned into a full fledged Industry, few ptr sites Bother much with the 2nd tier now, the bids are 40+ times higher from the parkers with the top two players backing them, so the ptr biz is at a 4 Year High in profits right now, and will Remain there until the two big players get these parking companies to shape up or ship them out.

There are, in any given week, about a dozen ptr sites that are 'hot', running parked domains, most paying members 1 cent a click, they have from 10 to 70 ads per day each, 7 days a week, and memberships range from 800 to over 2,500 at each site, do the math...
there are another 50 or so 'lesser' sites doing the same.

The paid to read email clicks on the big boys ads are Monthly NOT in the tens of Thousands, it is Much higher than that. Most of the current 'top paying' ptr sites, won't even Send the ads to new members, until the new members ip shows up in the initial two or three 'test ads' they recieve upon signup. These are hard core and Dedicated ppc/cpc feeding program owners and they Know what they are doing. They can Pay their member 1 cent a pop to click the daylights outta your 25cent and up clicks and they pocket a very nice % of that from the parkers, it's a goldmine for them, which is why a new site Launches every other day now.


1:39 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

I've a question on this ..do MOST of you BUYING traffic want or do not want Parked Domain traffic?

The Parker will tell you this is the most on target traffic you can buy .. Now I have to assume that if you have a basket site and are selling basketball shoes on it that you would love to pay for traffic from the parked basketballshoes.comer ..because the traffic would be so on target.

Or is it that you all believe that the Parking companies are somehow sending off target traffic (increasing the traffic ) through these otherwise good names and diluting the worth of the traffic (all for the sake of milking the advertisor)


2:55 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Hello dauction;

For my part of this discussion, I'm Not saying that the parking companies are 'deliberately' milking the advertiser.
I know of One parking company, (I don't think I'm allowed to post the names of sites here), that is So On the ball at trashing accounts that are sending ptr traffic to their parked domains, that it's very Rare to see it in the ptr circuit anymore at all.
The ptr owners Know they won't last long if they try and get away with the bogus trafffic at that site, so it's not a parker they use.

Some other parking companies are Widely used throughout the ptr biz.
Do the parkers 'Know', that is the question.
Well, they Know, when I or someone else on the inside of the sham Tells them, and sometimes one of them Acts, sometimes Not.

It is Clear to me at least, that these companies are Either not on to the ptr thing yet, or they are slow to act at best.

I realize that the parkers Can be good traffic to advertisers bids, but if a ptr po happens on High Bids for that basketball site, Count on it that next week, they'll have a half dozen domains parked to capitalize on it.
At least One parking company even has This Covered, as they require the domain to be parked to have some 'age' to it, but the ptr folks have this too covered now, they are finding more and more means of Buying the desired domain name, to keep hitting the good paying keywords.

The 'solution', I personally believe to be Not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, as the parkers Can be a Good Partner to the better ppc/cpc companies, what is Required, is for ALL Parties Concerned, to become Aware that All the others Know about the ptr Traffic, and Demand that it be Dealt with in a very timely manner.
This is very doable, but the parking company Needs to Act, when a ptr member is good enough to Report it to them, it's an unrewarding task at best, and the few reporting it get disgusted when they see the ads Continuing to run after they've taken the time and effort to Document the paid ads for the company.

When one of the parking companies holds back on deleting this Known and Undesireable Traffic, it is Time for the ppc/cpc company Backing it to get in there and stir things up on behalf of their own advertisers.

To complicate this issue even further, sorry, as the Main Parking companies catch on and begin deleting ptr accounts, the ptr pos are Now even starting their Own would-be parking companies. If the two big players Fall for this, and give them their feeds, it's going to reflect very poorly on the overall 'parked domain traffic', again, leading to a baby and the bathwater senerio if a 'parker' is Treated as a 'parker', by Either the ppc/cpc company, or their advertiser.

In other words, to be most effective, a 'switch' for advertisers or the company to turn on or off 'parker' traffic, would be non benificial, they need to be Treated as individual partners to be more effective in terms of overall advertiser roi. imho.
The Better Solution however, Remains for the ppc/cpc company to Terminate those parking companies accounts that do not Quickly delete the known ptr accounts that they have been Told About.

If these parking companies Act, they wipe up to 100 Bogus ptr traffic domains in One Swipe, as many have that many domains parked under the one account.


3:39 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

So I have to admit .. because I dont buy traffic I've never really paid much attention to PTR programs..

I just went and read up on them and can easily understand why no advertisor wants that garbage .

I'm not sure what this has to do with Parked domains though..Parked domains mostly simply have adverts on them ..no content.. so there's nothng topget "Paid to Read"

If that is hapening then it is a Paid to Click issue not a PTR ..Paid to read issue .

while PTR is just garabage PTC is outright fraud of the advertisor .

Are you all saying "some" parking comapnies are hiring PTR service for Parked domins (and Y is buyingthis traffic) .. then that is simply a fraud because the companies no there isnt any content on parked domains .. it's only goal then is to PTC

Yeah I'dbe ticked .. maybe allyou advertisors need to form a 301 c organization to build upsome collective clout and hammer away at Y or anyone else using such programs


4:21 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

No, the parking companies are not buying the ptr clicks themselves.
works like this:

The ptr owner sets up the ptr site.
Then they get their memberbase.
Then they get a truckload of domains.
Then they Park those domains at parking companies, that Have the g or y feed, so they can make a good dollor for their efforts.
Then they Send The Members of their Own Ptr site, Paid Email Ads Pointing to their Own Parked Domains, and if the ptr Members don't do Searches on the portal pages or click on the preloaded content 'results', the ptr owner doesn't Pay the Member.
* It Costs the ptr Owner 1 cent a click to their Member, who Makes for the Owner whatever the g or y Bid is on the keyword they click on and it's result, or in the case of g, whatever preloaded result they click on, so there is an Extremely Good Profit in it for the ptr Owner.
**Some ptr sites Also Sell ads to Other folks that are running the same sham, but don't own their own ptr site, they get fewer 'valids' but still continue to buy ads, so they Are making a profit from the crooked venture.

The Parker, is being defrauded as much as g and y, and their advertisers.

Hope that clearifies a bit.

There are a Ton of ptr sites that send domain ads, that don't 'force' their members to click the results, but the Largest by far number of monthly ptr clicks hitting the parking companies right now, Are forced searches, as they are called in the ptr biz.

The ptr owner, Has the ip of the Member, from the ptr Script.
They then can 'cross-reference' this to the clicks they recieve from their parked domains, so they pay the 'good and honest members', and they don't pay the 'cheaters' that cheat the ptr site, by Not cheating the advertisers the parker is displaying.
*this is the Same system that has been used in ptr for a long time now, but it's only late 2005/early 2006 that they have hit the parking companies, which give them access to both g and y. All they had to date, was the 2nd tier ppc companies, which they have driven from sunlights view now, so they are after the higher bids, and they are getting them from the unsuspecting parking companies.

There are a couple of parking companies I'm beginning to lose faith in, but I am not yet willing to come out and assert Any are accepting the cash paid ptr clicks Knowingly as yet. Again, a few ptr program owners are allready toying themselves with creating bogus parking sites of their Own, these of course it won't do much good to 'report violations to', it's a matter of keeping g and y Away from them, another job to face soon.


8:39 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Tell me one thing (or two) -- why would a legitimate advertiser want on a parked domain site? If y and g only show relevant ads for keywords, then there is no need for a site that shows more listings, and the y and g results should accomplish that in and of themselves.


9:04 pm on Jun 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

In my experience, the traffic from parked domains is pure garbage. I'm sure some people have been succesful with it, but I've never been able to make it as profitible as the other traffic.

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