Forum Moderators: open
WisenutK seems to be focusing on building their own advertising products and have spun off a couple specialized search engines...
I keep saying this but...
korea may be "behind" in some respects...but in others....its light years ahead of the search game.
no really.
web search is probably the LEAST popular of the "kinds of search" you can do here.
[edited by: Woz at 1:21 am (utc) on April 27, 2004]
That explains a lot. I can see how that would work...now I'm really wondering why this would work so well in Korea and not be picked up by other engines outside Korea.
Actually I've wondered that and ...ahem.... even started some pet projects to that end. ^^ (that's me officially saying "I got DIBS!" lol). There are Imany reasons, but I suspect, again, the most obvious first reason is cultural (like the registration process I mentioned briefly earlier). The second sounds silly...but I REALLY wouldn't be surprised if it was a HUGE factor: They just didn't know! (until now? lol ;))
Seriously. Im still continually surprised..even shocked...by how much ppl in korea take for granted as things done here as something done elsewhere (or even just don't care or don't have time to know) and VICE VERSA. I have LOADS of other examples that exemplify this. No reason to not think this might be one of them.
I mean, WebmasterWorld is pretty much recognized to be THE best place for "cutting edge" info on the Search market, no? Yet, nobody here had a clue or cared to mention it. Heck, I been meaning to go into it for a couple years and just never got around to it. Yet, its still "news" for the "rest of the world".
Yahoo ppl would be the exception...they know about it are positioned to do something about, but its not that they don't have their hands full. I imagine they'd be the first to roll out with a similar product one day (or some start-up). So they're probably keepin their lips tight.
Still, I guarantee the curtain behind which lies "internet asia" has barely begun to be pulled back...and I am confident that the great OZ will in fact...be pretty great. :)
Would you say that KS works better on some portals than others?
Basically, the general favor of the answers is a bit different, but the content quality is basically on par. With one portal tending to "lean" in one way or the other in terms of depth of content---slightly more technical, slightly more informational, slightly more blahblah....
but Naver's is by far the biggest.
To use the DMOZ analogy again, do you find that the same people will answer the same questions on several portals? Like a category editor editing at other directories? I'm trying to see if I can draw any parallels to things people here would have experience with.
you know, I've never really looked that closely to see how much crossover editors there are. I'll do some checking and let you know. But as a matter of statistics... i'm sure there are some that are on all of them...and some that are only on one. Even better than a DMOZ analogy, I think these forums are a more apt one....how many SEM type forms are you on? ;)
This KS model might be likened to a successful forum (like WebmasterWorld), where with moderation, you get a list of questions with great answers due to the quality of the community that you've built up.
again, I think that's not too bad an analogy for this point too.
Speaking of, I've always thought that if WBW got a kick-arse search engine on it (with all the "bellandwhistles")-- even a KS like one slapped on it -- you'd have the makings of a incredible SPECIALIZED search engine....in fact....a very marketable one. (lets see if Brett is paying attention. lol ^^) Sorry, but the current search function is.... a bit lacking. (I have better luck using goog to find content on WebmasterWorld! lol!)
Let's just say if there was a KS in the US (especially one specifically for SEM stuff, of course).... I'd be ALL over it.
Short answer:
and again...
THAT'S JUST THE OVERSIMPLIFIED TIP OF THE PROVERBIAL KS ICEBERG version!
All that and no Zingu PPC advertising sponsored links!
Pfft!
;)
Seriously. Im still continually surprised..even shocked...by how much ppl in korea take for granted as things done here as something done elsewhere (or even just don't care or don't have time to know) and VICE VERSA. I have LOADS of other examples that exemplify this. No reason to not think this might be one of them.
I have no idea what you are talking about. ~_^;;
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! (thread split!)
hmm...I better come up with some more juice to earn a spot on the index page again. lol.
AGAIN...unless SOME other lurking koreans out there wanna lend a hand?!
<sigh>
;)
lol z. ;)
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! (thread split!)
hmm...I better come up with some more juice to earn a spot on the index page again. lol.AGAIN...unless SOME other lurking koreans out there wanna lend a hand?!
<sigh> ;)
too late... myuhahahaha!
Quick list of some Korean searches types (most if not all generally available at nav):
-Combined Search
-KS (Knowledge Search)
-Encyclopedia
-Dictionary (6 kinds!)
-Academic thesis search - *new*
-"Knowledge Market" search- *newish*
===>seems to be a kinda a search for official, profession and academic documents. Its an open market as well (buy and sell docs)
===>includes file extensions: doc, ppt, hwp, pdf, txt, xls!
-Directory
-News
===>three types: "regular" news (recent/relevant), photo news (news with photos), video news (articles with video clips)
-Image search(5 kinds!....more later ^^)
-Knowledge Shopping or Product search
-emotion/feeling search? really don't know much about this. its a weird empas thing. I suppose I should look more into it.
-Web page
-Commercial only search results
-Local search
-Blog
-Cafe (community)
-Map
AND OTHERS!(yup there are more but...those from a quick scan!).
Most of them have a few interesting bells-and-whistles features attached or as value-addeds. Interesting to point out...there are no "advanced search options" that I've found.
but then again, with all that.... who really needs em?! lol
-"Knowledge Market" search- *newish*This sounds like what the old Northern Light was doing. They claimed to index parts of the web not open to regular SEs and charged for the results. This failed for several reasons, but I'm guessing that a big part of it was that they weren't much of a draw after they started charging. They didn't have a full enough selection of other services that might keep pulling in visitors. I would be interested to know how this is doing now in Korea.
This sounds like what the old Northern Light was doing. They claimed to index parts of the web not open to regular SEs and charged for the results. This failed for several reasons, but I'm guessing that a big part of it was that they weren't much of a draw after they started charging. They didn't have a full enough selection of other services that might keep pulling in visitors. I would be interested to know how this is doing now in Korea.
LOOKS to be doing well.
TON of content already. All common and most strange searches come with decent content. Already a pretty robust and sophisticated system too with tons of features and in-and-outs.
Some stuff is free, some you pay can for (super cheap). Some great UI functions that lets you (as a netizen) check box what format of doc you are looking for, preview windows (like on vivisimo) for the content synopsis, feedback systems, free discussions related to just about every result and more.
Nav did a license deal with some academic content provider at first, but now have--of course--started doing it on their own.
I'd say it shows no signs of letting up as its well integrated with the other portal features and content.
<<They just didn't know! (until now? :-0 lol ) >>
Like WW members who haven't discovered this amazing thread! Thanks Grendel.
It reads to me that while Google et al use matching and linking to evaluate content relevancy and popularity, Korean search (KS) relies on people acting/contibuting/voting in response to content to make an evaluation or rating.
To get successful exposure (SEO - or KSO perhaps) of your Web content, people have to ask related questions AND other people have to answer PLUS add a link to your site into the answer. Or your site will not be found! SEO must be VERY interesting! And very slow to achieve?
Like WW members who haven't discovered this amazing thread! Thanks Grendel.
lol NP! thanks for the thanks! :D ^_^
Korean search (KS) relies on people acting/contibuting/voting in response to content to make an evaluation or rating
yes, Knowledge Search (oppposed to Korean Search in general. ;) I assume you meant Knowledge Search when you said "KS") requires huge participation for it to be as successful as it is.....which is its advantage AND its DISadvantage (ironically). Remember, relatively speaking....korea is SMALL. And generaly speaking, its HOMOGENOUS. So what you end up with is (as I've heard ZinguGuy say before actually---to give credit where credit is due ~_^ Z!) the equivalent of a VERY LARGE LOCAL market. (One that is fortunately very net savvy and all on broadband. heh)
<< sidebar: search stuff here is still all about good SE crawlers, algos etc. KS is a unique example of a combination of good SE tech with a motivated market >>
This is tough to explain but...
So you end up searches in KS that are very sophisticated---in that "Koreanized way". This is good (as you do get good results), but this is also why I think other sites like Big G DOES have its following here and a good bet for prefered "alternative" search (web search as it were). As well as for PPC/adwords of course. The results often just FEEL different overall and as such offer a great alternative. And well...you cant compete with G's index, so they often are actually differnt. Along this line, OVER kor has spent a truck load of money getting integrated here....but I suspect smaller guys like Zingu.com and Goog Kor (it is a "small big" company here) who are much more concerned with localization feel and support will actually have a stronger long-term outlook, (if I may be so bold).
I wonder what a robost KS system would look like with in a multicultural and backgrounded country like the US. Would it be BETTER as there is more variety of quality assurance input, or just make it too haphazard, or GREAT with natural expert sub-cultures forming around keyword groups.
Like I implied, I already let the cat-outta-the-bag about my pet-project to that end, but....oh well, who can keep nowadays anyway? its fascinating anyway, no?
There's a lot to digest in all of your information! You'll just have to feed us in reasonable chunks....
Bill,
Japan is fairly homogeneous - but perhaps not all sort of crammed into two big cities (so huge common experience). No sign of something like knowledge search?
I haven't posted on this but I think it summarizes Naver very well. I have been focusing US SEs only because my job is mostly for US web sites.
I have a few English web sites and am about to launch my First Korean web site. ( I like building web sites as a hobby.)
So, your excellent postings here helps me understand Korean SEs a lot.
Personally, I use Naver in most cases for Korean search. I never had to go to the second page from Naver search. (It is long first page, I know. :) )
Here in the US, because of so many SEOed sites, it is very difficult to see the real good sites (especially product related search.)
I will try to come here often and answer some of the questions others may have on Korean Search Engines.
I do not have in-depth knowledge on Korean SEs yet but may help with other Cultural or laguage related things, since I am a Korean.
Thanks for the great posts!
I attempt to bring this thread back from the dead! Myuahahah! :p
a new korean SERP feature that is picking up speed here in Korea is an character based related search results.
basically, its a glorified related search listing up top with some cutsy cartoon characters attached with a word bubble explaining some details about the keyword searched for and its related items (like search volume and rank).
heh. totally one of those "only in Asia" things I would think. But the basic idea is good. Spruce up the info and presentation of related keywords after a search. THis is currently mostly commonly seen at Daum, which very recently changed its total UI as well. :D
here's an obvious UI "trick" that great marketing, generally helpful and not bothersome to consumers that I'm surprised they don't do in the US more (esp. smaller SEs)....
Portals and SEs here put a key word or phrase (with a tiny image even) IN THE SEARCH BOX by default.
This is obviously paid for at a premium, but what happens is if you put your cursor in the box...it disappears. But if you just click "search" button....that keyword/phrase is searched for.
Currently the default search box term now is a question in Daum. It is a little house icon basically (rough translation) "what if you search for doonsan dentist?"
This works great during holiday events and usually in the form of a suggestion or something like....ie: "Try a search for Flowers for Valentine's Day!"
they netizen just clicks "search"....and walla! you got yourself a SERPpage (with incidently *ahem* is full of sponsored links).
searches for such default search box terms is some X factor more than usual.
a new korean SERP feature that is picking up speed here in Korea is an character based related search results.They've got to be using those Microsoft Agent Characters for that...am I right? MS had those cutesy help characters popping up everywhere a few years ago. Remember that damned paper clip in Office trying to help? I think it was a remnant of the Bob OS. I notice a lot of people in Japan that still use that feature. I think a lot of them just don't know how to turn it off...but it seems to bother them less than in other countries.
I like the pre-filled-with-seasonal-term search idea, could be good to use in all sorts of situations. Not sure about the little cartooney thingy though, as you say, only in Asia.
To recap this thread, you have introduced us to:-
How about Directory Search? Is that different to western counterparts?
Any other types of search?
Onya
Woz
Any other types of search?
ack! you looking to give me a heart attack or what?! lol ;) I thought I went over some of those! heh.
As I mentioned, there are at least a dozen types of search that are active here already as basic search features here. If you want just a basic idea go to naver dot com and forget the broken text.....click the drop down box next to the search box...and you'll get a basic idea of HOW MANY of the immediate searches types you get. And there are a TON more once you get into it...but those are the BASIC default ones! Note these aren't all just search topics (like Danny Sul's famous multi tab googl), but actual different kinds of search (like knowledge, dictionary, blog, cafe, shopping etc).
As for difference in Directory......Short answer is YES. Mostly UI (user interface) and Value-Added difference (like LOADS of additional features built into the results as well). Add the obsessive nature of registering and contributing of the netizen here and you get great directory search here. Dmoz is near nonexistent. If you have a korean site,its ok to register there...but don't expect anything from it.
If we use Yhoo Directory SERP (search engine results page) as an example...it has related categories and then top search results listing. Occasional stock symbols and the category link spice up the action...
on NHN (Naver) directory SERP you (usually) get three areas 1) a general category tree 2) Site listings which include popularity ranking of sties, document search bubble box, more details (full explain and details about company---usually for NHN related stuff---you get images and history etc!) then a multiple category tree (if available) for that and related keywords for EVERY listing and 3) WEB PAGE directory listings with same format as 2.
also, I should add....
I sometimes glace over "and a few bells and whistles"....
however, its important stress its not cause they are just pretty or flashy asian stuff (like the characters)...but because they are REALLY pretty dang cool and useful and it would be a HUGE undertaking in itself to go over. (Like the slide show and editor feature for image results). And let me stress too...they are VERY WELL cross-integrated with the rest of the portals features and areas and content---which I can imagine in itself is a huge undertaking.
So I don't want to under play ""few bells and whistles" too much. They are significant features to Korean search.
I really am TRYING to keep it in small chunks! lol
They've got to be using those Microsoft Agent Characters for that...am I right?
naw...this is much more along the hellokitty or karopie type thing. But they seem to be Daum original characters. anyway, to be clear...these aren't POP up avatar animated things...nothing that complex. Its just a character image next the related words. (not unlike putting a company logo next to company sponsored links).
but that alone seems to make a difference and provides a good excuse to increase attention and thus clickthroughs to related keywords in that speaking bubble box thing. heh.
PS. thank goodness the clip is dead!
Onya
Woz
(continuing from my comment from here [webmasterworld.com], there are some interesting things on portals nowadays related to search.....
a few quickies:
1. publication search is book search again...steroids. You get tabbed options for SERP: combined search results (within the publ.search results), purchacing and general results and the SERP themselves offer loads of very easy driling down options as well as individually labelled results so you know what category of search it is in (business, university, etc).
I love the radio button/check box choices they give at the top of some of the SERPS (this is NOT unique to publication search either). Eg: document seach allows you to check box if you only want ".doc, .xls, .pdf" results.
No actual book content like amazon as far as I can tell though. Who knows though? ;)
2. Trend: Integration of "popular keyword" list concept....EVERYWHERE.
It seems everywhere there are search results there is a side bar or scrolling box or something nearby listing the most popular searches (for that search or category). Its frankly, so simple a concept but stroke of genius, imo. It generates more of its own searches AND well, I like it! As a netizen, I like seeing what is the most popular searched for keywords whereever the portal I am. And its fun drilling down into the popular searches (more in point 3 later) and/or offers an easy reference point if completely a seach but want to do another. (note: not to be confused with the prevalent "related search" results that we see in US and other SERPs--remember I commented on how this is handled by the "avatar/search jockey thing at the top of many SERPS).
They go further with presentation (of course) and extra options and breakdown in these "popular search term lists" then I see anywhere in the US (even k3ywordtr@cker). This is also smart, imo, cause you start seeing "mini-communities" form around specific keywords. Add the smart integration with Knowledge search and other portal features...and you get even more, self-generating sophisticated and in-depth results.
3. Taking that idea even further...we have Search Magazine (specically, at Daum). This is an in depth area within the portal all about search. Its like where you go to get all the search (especially "popular search") lists and info and where you delve in further via community/forum/cafe interaction. And you can drill down like around a keyword. Like Goog Zeitgeist and keyword tr@cker d0tcom....on (yup) steroids, speed and some eX. In and of itself, it would be a impressive site.
EG: imagine Zeitgeist where you clicked one of the top seached for words, and get a full blown write-up, related stories, images, links, and forum/community about it. And ALL of the keywords have that. ANND that's just the basics.
Heck, I'd PAY for that in the US. This is just a feature of the portal.
As I see it, Daum knowns its all about search and they are milking it. A fact obvious from the fact that linkbutton to the Search Magazine is right next to the search box (where "advanced/preferences" like would be in US based search sites.
4. last point...remember, I think one point to keep remembering is only possible (or only developed as it did) because of the incredible broadband penetration. The other main reason is purely cultural (homogenous, passionately focused and tech oriented).
----------
ok....that's all can handle typing for now. Of course, there is tons and tons and tons more.....but hey....
basically "there" search is a search that deals with the "where should I go if...?" or "where was that place that....?" searcher.
Imagine a portal (in and of itself) focused on Travel destinations, food, fun, shops and events around korea. In a way, you can consider it a form of media and content rich local search with a focus on "where do you want to go?" feeling.
People I know who use it tend to use it for finding a good date spot, new restaraunt, weekend trips or events, etc.
I assume its a big push from yahoo as its there first button(equivalent to tabs in US version) in their search features. that is (it looks something like this):
<< ____this is the searchbox_____ >>(search web)
(there) (image) (knowledge search) (news) (gift/shopping)
I don't even know where to begin in describing the SERP. :/
but leave it to say...its classic korean, feature rich and busy style.
not to be left out..I totally forget to mention the new "guhgi" or ("there") search from Yahoo Kor. (hey! its hard to keep up!lol)
er...basically.... its yah korea's version of local search (on steriods).
ALSO, yahoo just launched a more robust real estate search (had realestate service prior) that includes price data from a few major realtor firms. Looks like they will be keeping with korean tradition of giving it a lot of value-addeds to the search results as well:
"We plan to blend our real-estate information service with our city guide service in the future, while also developing an e-commerce product based on the data pool"
