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I told him that the reason I was offering him such a deal was that I needed the cash. He came back with an offer to pay 55% down, and then 45% upon completion. I relunctantly agreed. Then, when we met so that he could give me his deposit, he only had a check for 45%. I asked him why he only brought 45%. His reasoning was that I hadn't done anything yet. I told him that it is common practice for designers to get a deposit before any work is done. But again, since I needed the cash, I reluctantly agreed.
He had claimed that he would get the content to me within a few weeks. Well, that didn't really happen. We did, however, spend a few hours talking about how to market his business and the site. We also spent a few hours getting the color scheme and look down for his temporary page. I then I spent another couple of hours doing the temp page, as it had some special effects. During this time, he is calling me up asking me opinions on his logo that he just had made, talking about the clients that he will promote, etc.
Well, it is four months later, and the temp page is still up on his domain. I have hosted him for these four months, and I also gave him use of email.
Within this past week, I sent him an email stating that even though we were friends, it had been four months since we made the deal, and he still had not made a move to get his site up. I told him that I would have to put a time limit on our deal. I gave him a week. I stated that any work on his website after that would be based on my current prices, as I would no longer be able to honor the deal that I had made with him four months ago.
He emailed me back stating that I never mentioned anything about a time limit, and that he told me when he gets the content and talent's cd's done, that he would contact me. He also said that if I feel that I need to put a time limit on the deal, that I should refund him the money. He went on to say that he gave me the money because he knew that I needed the money ASAP. He said that he knew that he didn't have all of the content ready, but he went and gave me the money anyway. He suggested that I think about it and see if my doing that would hinder our friendship.
Well, he claimed that he would be ready in a couple of weeks. He did give me a time frame. That is why I did not bother putting a time limit on the deal. I figured it would just work out like all of my other clients have, especially since he was a friend.
And with regards to my actions hindering our friendship, his actions are what should be looked at when considering our friendship. When he went back on his word at the last minute on how much he agreed to put down for a deposit, even though he had just gotten me to come down from my deal of having him pay for it all upfront to get the deal, that definitely offended me. I felt he was taking advantage of my situation.
And now that he has let it go for 4 months, that also offends me as he is exploiting our friendship by letting it go on. Granted, some things are not in his control. I guess he had a client that he was going to promote, but that fell through. So, he really doesn't have anyone to promote right now. But when we originally started talking, he was going to promote his own music.
When you make a deal with someone, friend or no friend, you can not expect that deal to be good forever. Things change. Businesses change. Prices change. I am about to start contracting out my work so that I can concentrate more on growing the business and getting more clients, and I will not be able to honor the deal that I made with him 4 months ago once that comes to fruition, as I will no longer be building the sites myself, and will have to pay the designers to do it.
Dealing with freinds is always a sticky situation. He's a friend, but I don't really see or talk to him that often. Yes, he did help me out, but I also feel that he exploited the situation as well. I gave him much more of my time and work already than what he put down for a deposit. So, if it comes to that, I really don't think he should get a refund, but I'm sure that would probably end the friendship. However, I don't really know how much of a friend he actually is based on his actions.
NOTE: No, there was no contract signed in this deal. From now on, I will require everyone to sign a contract, friend or no friend. And I will also put a 30 day limit on the amount of time that my company will spend on a site at the price agreed upon. Anything done to the site after that time period will be extra.
How would you guys handle this situation?
We all have to do some jobs that we don’t get a proper payback on. Be it gratis work, a special deal, or a non-paying account. That is the way business works. No arrangement is perfect.
I am about to start contracting out my work so that I can concentrate more on growing the business and getting more clientsis a good time to end this arrangement. A semi-formal letter stating that in X amount of time, the business is “upgrading” and if he wants to be part of that upgrade, he needs to enter into a contract. I would offer him a fair contract for continuing services.
Good Luck,
jb
Offered to do a friend's website for free last year. Then he started adding pages, making changes, etc. I now have some 350+ hours into his site. He's said repeatedly that he needs to reimburse me somehow, but when I mentioned a trade-out for an item that cost him just $350, he said that's too high.
At that point, I told him that I couldn't do any more work until we reached a formal agreement on reimbursement for any further work.
I'd suggest you tell your "friend" that you'll return the money for work that hasn't yet been done, but retain the money for what you have done. And that anything in the future has to be done via contract.
Doing business with friends is always risky.
So I sat down and listed what could go wrong and what I expected. This is probably the area where handshake deals are weakest. So next time your are tempted to do a handshake deal, think, what could go wrong and what do I expect. Then, list the expectations out, maybe a written contract is the best way for all things except charity work.
Regards,
Shane
And just to recap, the deal that I originally made with him gave him 35% off by paying for the site upfront. It is much like getting a discount on your hosting package because you pay for the year upfront. However, I would never offer the deal that I gave him to a client off the street. I simply offered that to him so that we could help each other out.
In any case, those are the options that I am going to offer him. If he feels that this hinders our friendship, then so be it, as that will imply to me that we didn't have a friendship to begin with.
Thanks for the advice, though. And Shane, yes, I will definitely be drawing up a contract for everyone in the future. Friend or no friend.
And BaseVinyl, I hope you were kidding with your comment, because if you weren't, you will not stay in business very long. Your clients are the ones that pay your bills. If you don't take care of them, then you will not only screw them, but you will screw yourself as well. Word-of-mouth spreads like wildfire. Especially when it comes from the tip of a tongue from a client who has just been burned. No offense, though. Just a little friendly advice for a person just starting out.
It took quite a while to get paid, and he was always behind in his hosting fee. I eventually put a "site under maintenance" screen for his home page, and got paid real fast.
It came time for the yearly renewal and I never heard back from him. So I shut the site down completely. 6 months later he wanted to make amends, pay any back payment, etc.
I told him he had to do it through PayPal monthly subscription. He "couldn't get it to work" so I told him to find another host, and someone who could do the site maintenance for him.
Next case.
Allow him to pay off as much as he can afford before Sep 22 with the discount applied and any part payments after have no discount. He may chose to pay off a further 20% or 30% in order to save money in the long run.
If he does not like the idea of having to pay and demands a refund; simply state that the work was done, however the page was used and made public. No refund can be made for this as it has been 'legally' agreed by both parties accepting the quality of the work.
Don't give him a discount on the payment after September 22. Make him pay the full 55% of your normal price: he has already had a discount in the first payment of 45% of your discounted price. It was his choice to pay less, if he had paid more back then (the 55% he offered), his discount would be larger, in effect.
Allow him to pay off as much as he can afford before Sep 22 with the discount applied and any part payments after have no discount. He may chose to pay off a further 20% or 30% in order to save money in the long run.
If he does not like the idea of having to pay and demands a refund; simply state that the work was done, however the page was used and made public. No refund can be made for this as it has been 'legally' agreed by both parties accepting the quality of the work.
Good advice, however, I already sent the email with the above options. If he does contact me, I may offer that to him, but based on his history, I just don't want to have anything lingering with him.
Good move, txbakers!
in the end one just wanted to do nothing and work elsewhere and the other just wanted to sit in the pub all day - cos he was a boss while I was left to do all the work.
Working with friends - relatives doewnt work just dont do it.
They always look upon your business as a game and nothing really that serious.
The schedule should never have been allowed to get so out of hand. When I strike a deal, it's go go go! Get it approved, get it done, get it up and get out. Get checked off at every step. Which is not to say that I skimp on the quality -- It is projects that drag on which are destined for trouble.
Clients that are 'suddenly' unprepared to get on with it give me nightmares. It's always trouble.
I've had work with 'friends' go south when they think that friendship includes lots of free extras and consideration(even beyond a fair discount)...
No kidding. And how can they even call themselves friends when they want you to work for a lot less money than you are used to. Friends should want to help you, not exploit you.
but I never do business with anyone I'm not prepared to write off...
Very good point.
...so I know going in that I may learn tough lessons about how they do business. The schedule should never have been allowed to get so out of hand.
I am aware of that. First he was going to promote his music. Then he was going to promote a client of his. Then that fell through. It just kept on going on and on, and I had other projects to work on. So, since he was a "friend", I overlooked it. However, never again. From now on, there will be a contract for every client specifying every detail, including deadlines for each step. And there will be no exceptions.
When I strike a deal, it's go go go! Get it approved, get it done, get it up and get out. Get checked off at every step.
Same here. Usually, I am on them to get me all of the content. I like get the site done and up within a couple of days. This was just an exception.
Which is not to say that I skimp on the quality...
Ditto.
It is projects that drag on which are destined for trouble.Clients that are 'suddenly' unprepared to get on with it give me nightmares. It's always trouble.
Case in point. I've learned my lesson.
Bottom line is you will be pulling the plug on him, sooner or later.
Unfortunately, you were right. Had to pull the plug today. Killed me to do it, but business is business.
