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I have had this client for a year, and we have emailed each other throughout the year. Mostly business or computer related issues, but some were personal emails. In any respect, when they contracted my services, I was just starting out and gave them the killer deal of one year of free hosting.
Well, that year passed, and I emailed them on August 5th stating that their free year was up (they actually got a few extra months, which I kiddingly noted in the email). I stated that their hosting fee would be due on August 15th. On the same day I sent that email, Aug 5th, they sent an online payment for an update that I did that was due on Aug 1st, which I had not contacted them about yet. I let it slide for a little bit.
They emailed me on the 18th of August stating that they really wanted to pay me, but that they weren't going to get paid until Friday, August 22. They also stated that they desperately needed work done on their car, so they asked if they could pay one payment on the 22nd of August, and the next payment on the 5th of September. They wanted to pay the fee upfront so that they would get the two free months of hosting that I give to clients when they pay for the year upfront. So, I agreed.
I also, as a friend, asked them how much they were going to pay for their car to be worked on. They told me. So, I hooked them up with a guy who would do it for $200 less. They would just have to buy the parts (which didn't cost that much). They were very thankful for that.
Come August 22, they stated that the check would not clear until the following Monday. So, they did not want to write a check until they were able to cover it. So, I agreed again. Come Monday, I sent a friendly reminder for them to pay the payment as promised. Didn't hear from them.
Then, the next day, Tuesday, come 5:15pm, I still had not heard from them. So, I gave them a call on their cell phone, and left a message stating that I had tried to work with them on the payment, but for some reason it was not being honored. I also stated that I even hooked them up with a mechanic who would save them more than what it cost to host their site with me for the whole year, and that I still had not received payment. In hindsight, however, I realize that I should not have mentioned that. That was my mistake. That statement made it personal.
Anyway, I told them that I needed to run a tight ship business-wise, and that if I did not receive payment by 8PM that night, that I would put up a temporary page for their site until payment was received. Once again, in hindsight, I think that I should have given them more time, but I was strapped for cash, was leaving for a week the next day, and was not cool with the fact that they were exploiting our friendship.
In any respect, come 8PM, I had not heard back from them. So I took down their site and put up a temporary page stating on the page that their site would be back up momentarily. That was on the 26th of August, and I still have not heard from them.
I am sure that they were quite offended that I did that, seeing that we are friends, but as I stated in the email that I sent to them, we all fall on hard times, but, unfortunately, business will always be business. I did state that our friendship was still intact, however.
In any case, I am having second thoughts about my actions, and am thinking of putting their site back up, apologizing for being so stern, and suggesting that they pay monthly until they can afford to pay for the year up front. I just feel that I may have to make the first move to repair this situation.
But if I do that, it will look like what I did was wrong, and will set the precedent for future similar circumstances, implying that they do not have to send payments promptly.
Again, they have made no effort to make good on their promise, and I don't take kindly to people thinking that they can let things slide with me because I am their friend.
I know that this was a long post, but I just wanted to give all of the details.
Thoughts on what I should do next?
I would still like to keep them as a client. They frequently updated their website, and they were also interested in purchasing more services from me in the future (which would be paid for upfront).
One more side note, for their updates, they usually did not pay right after I sent them a proof, but I never uploaded the updates to their site until I received full payment.
why indeed.
BTW, I have kept their email active as a courtesy (backflip #3), but mentioned that I would not be able to keep it active for much longer without payment. When would it be time to make that inactive as well?
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 10:09 pm (utc) on Sep. 5, 2003]
At the most, phone and state you would like to keep working with them. The next step you see is working out a payment option, in person, that they can stick to which includes a payment at the end of the meeting of at least 25, 33 or 50% depending on how you feel. Make it clear during the meeting that if they break that payment schedule, then the page comes down again.
My brother in-law made loans to people who were hard up for cash. He cut them off when they stopped phoning, stopped explaining their situation, and stopped making some payments. Till then he listened and was soft on the people and hard on the problem.
If you really want to keep it alive but not cave, try the suggestion above. But they must make a payment at the end of the meeting.
Good Luck,
Shane
[reason for edit] Just washed my fingers and I can't do a thing with them. Sha-boom chuckle, chuckle, chuckle [end reason for edit]
One way I weed out the "friends" - "family" or "cheapskates" is by my rates.
Except for a collaboration with clearly demarcated roles and expectations, I don't do business with friends or family (friends, only if we are talking about a healthy business with employees). I would rather do a freebie for a friend/family member and call it a showcase site and walk away than take money and continue that relationship.
I stay away from the entrepreneur with a dream, pluck, but little or no funding. That's a recipe for a soap opera.
I've done freebies for friends, but I let them work out hosting and domain name stuff with someone else. It's important to build in that "walk away" factor.
Here are my parameters for freebies, in case your interested:
If they cannot abide with those conditions, they can do it themselves or hire someone who can do it at the rates they would like to pay.
In this case, it's unfortunate that it came to the point where you had to pull the plug, but I would take the next step and dump them onto someone else, to encourage them to "walk away" because they sound like they have more arias to sing. And that's not good.
Again, the problem is I tend to become friends with my clients, so they always think that I can give them a little leeway. I don't mean friends in the sense that we hang out or anything. I just mean that we keep in contact, and the conversations are not always about business. And since I run my business out of my apartment, that's even more reason why they think there is more leeway (because it is not a full-fledged business with an office, etc.).
By the way, do you put a limit on the amount of time that a client spends with you to get the design down, or is it unlimited until the site is finished and has been uploaded?
I have to say that if you are in charge of what you are doing then one of the single most important things that you can do is:
"choose you customers very carefully"
It is quite normal to become friends with people with whom you are in regular contact.
Note: Cynically it is also a very good sales ploy and used imho whether cynically or geniunely by the best sales people when relationship building, because even if they find a competitor can offer a truly better service the customer will often still give you the leeway to make up ground rather than do the dirty on "their friend".
I tell myself that I do not do this unethically, its just that I am a friendly chap but you cannot ignore that the effect is there. Just dont think of $$$ if you really are becoming a friend of the family as you will not be able to be geniune :-) (joke)
However can / will they pay for what you are doing for them or not?
Thats the only question that needs answering here.
It need not affect your friendship, though if you cease supplying them you will discover if it is geniune or just that which comes from regular contact.
One thing bothers me.
All the internet work I do is to make my clients money. Many say my sites are like extra sales people but cost less, use less time in meetings and make more money ..
It sounds a little as if your site (s) for these people may not be making them enough money for them to pay your bill?
Thats not a great position for you to be in either :-)
(sorry if that sounds harsh)
Also, with regards to your comment about my site not making them much money, these people are actors, so if their talent is not there, then I don't care how good my site is, they are not going to get work. Or, if they don't have an agent that is pushing them, or if they are not pushing themselves, that will also affect their success. My site can only do so much for them.
And by the way, I never take anything harsh. I actually welcome an criticism in any form. The reason for this comes from a saying that touches on the subject of thanking your enemies for showing you your weakness so you can better yourself. Not saying that you are an enemy at all. Just that the saying applies to criticism as well.
Any suggestion on how to deal with this situation as it stands now? Again, they were one of my first clients who helped me get started.
The above is not harsh, just realistic - give them a bad name also - don't forget that they may have business cards or letterheads printed with the web address on it. This may create difficulty for them, however it is they that have created the difficulty, not you.
It is your responsibility, however, to collect any money due; and your responsibility to keep the customer. You could email and quote them different prices: for example:
* monthly hosting $20/month paid by 30-day account
* yearly hosting $200/year paid by 30-day account
* monthly hosting $15/month paid up front
* yearly hosting $150/year paid up front
Make it clear that you do not offer the cheaper prices to other customers, just to friends, however due to account history you do need payment up front on their account.
One side note, I never, ever, allow friends to get anything for free for me. I have in the past when I first started out, but not anymore. I may offer them a discount - but I still make a profit - and I always treat them as a customer in the same way I would treat any other customer. Business is business and friendship is friendship - try to keep them seperate.
Just think about it. In politics, it is the guy who does a smear campaign against his opponent that looks bad, not the opponent. Same thing in business.
No offense, though. Just giving you my opinion.
No fibs, no slaps, just plain fact. You don't control when they catch up on the fees owed.
Also, once you have settled in your own mind whether these are friends you're willing to continue to do backflips for, or whether they are clients who are not honoring their end of the business relationship, you likely could apply a similiar notice on the unpaid email account via an autoresponder and simply forward the mail to a holding account.
Or, you could just leave everything active and sit back and hope for the best and for eventual payment. It's your business, and your income, or lack of it, afterwall.
And I forgot to mention that in the email that I sent giving them 2 days to make a payment and arrangement, I stated that if no type of payment were made by the 2 day deadline, that their email would also be temporarily disabled until payment is made. I will just change their password so that it will still catch the mail. However, thanks for the idea about the autoresponder. I will set that up as well, but will simply say in the autobot that the email account has been temporarily disabled.
I too sell to family members and friends, but always payment upfront, (the cheque clears before delivery), and always at a profit. Otherwise, why don't I just hand them some of my cash? (I don't do bad business, ever.)
It sounds like they are choosing to stay out of your life. Makes it an easy decision.
..... Shane
I dont know anything about you so I cannot know what you do for your clients or what your background is etc
However, your words:
"these people are actors" and "Any suggestion on how to deal with this situation as it stands now? Again, they were one of my first clients who helped me get started. "
ring some alarm bells for me.
When starting I worked for less than I will work for now.
I am grateful for work won at that time and want the goodwill from those clients to last as long as possible.
But that is not to say that I think every client I have or had has become or should become a regular cash machine.
Often after I have finished a job, others will be getting the repeat income for dial up hosting or other services, if that is in the best interests of the client.
I think its worth finding a way that their site stays online (esp if you are proud of your work).
This does not mean on your hosting or with complex functionality, just basically a site on the www.
I know your feeling that they helped you when you were starting out. Well I bet they have freespace from their ISP connection account.
I suggest a simple solution.
- You dont want to do them wrong but cannot continue to support it this current way.
- Move the site to freehosting on their account,
- Change text to a non date sensitive format (I mean not requiring regular updating)
- Or even show or advise them how to do it with an editor.
- Remove any contents or functionality which will not work on free hosting.
- Either move the domain to someone else or yourself set up frames forwarding to display the free space pages.
BTW, an aside AnonX I dont know how your agreements are worded or which continent or country you are in but I expect any text supplied by them is still in law their copyright while the design may be yours unless they paid for most of that already and unless you have one of these unsustainable ideas about always owning work you do for others even when they have paid for it :-) (dont start anyone please) .. did they basically pay you quite a bit so far to cover any design work you did and fall over on regular payments for uptime?
Sever your commercial link with them, leaving a site on the www and the option open to remain friends.
Perhaps they cannot pay for a professional class of hosting (for some not earning a lot it is a lot of money)
If they have a net connection usually these days it means they also have web space and email so they can therefore have a website on the cheap.
BTW .. I dont as a rule work for individuals.
I recently advised someone all they needed to know to make & host their own rather than charge to do it for them. My reasoning, they did not really want to pay or want anything complicated just a descriptive site with some images which could do ok in the engines. Not rocket science in non competitive sectors.
** Often "service X in town Y" is almost impossible not to rank on pg1 for **
** they will be the only one doing it :-) **
The info is available online as to what to do. Now we have a friend with no money complexities. It was not the sort of work I want to do.
I will try in general to stick to the sector I have chosen where I speak the language required, know the uniforms needed, and understand whats real and whats not. Each sector has its own modus operandi and my chances of wasting my time increase if I dilute my efforts away from my target niche.
AnonX if you want to work for actors then you need to hone your skills and knowledge for that sector. If not then I suggest you get focussed on your new target customer base.
:)
..... Shane
...forget about the experience but remember the lesson.
LOL. Love that advice!
And thanks again for your tip in your first post in this thread.
