Forum Moderators: LifeinAsia
Well, I think I've reached the point where I can guarantee a good-quality website with some extras that some designers can't: an extensive background in photography and Photoshop; a solid background in writing ad copy; a good working knowledge of Flash, ASP, MS Access, SQL and other aspects of website development that many designer types don't have.
What I don't have is a clue as to where to look for clients. As a photographer, I always approached advertising agencies and found my work there. But, in trying to find web work, I look at newpaper ads and see that every business right down to the local hamburger stand already has a website.
So, without giving away your sales secrets, where do you go to find new leads for your web business?
Here's a starter, I'm sure that the good folks will add to it.
Online:
Business directories
Freelance (tender/bid) sites
Articles
Specialist directories…
Offline:
Chamber of commerce
Development agencies
After dark clubs…
Word and mouth
Directories
Recommendations...
The bottom line ;) A good rep ensures a steady flow of clients.
HTH
Rich
(if you do them free, make sure to let them know you gave them a break and you are going to a higher rate for new customers)
I've already done that with a couple of sites. One I've done for free, and have been changing it constantly over the last year or so. Ive probably put 350 hours into it.
So far, though, no "snowballs." ;)
Thanks, all, for the replies.
since i specialize in backend work, I make it a habit to know as many graphics people as i can and we trade work back and forth.
always have your business card ready to hand out, too. make sure your online portfolio is up to date and worth looking at.
if you have to go cheap on design/development, try to get the hosting of the site as a trade off, so you can get the residual.
yikes! didn't mean 350 hours worth. It's time they hit your "accounts receivable" list.
I think coming from your background you should be able to work it out .. you are marketing yourself now just like the agencies you used to work for were marketing themselves.
Everything that has been commented to far I pretty much agree with excepting one or two small items. I really dont agree with this work for free to get going business.
What has not been mentioned is that to get a reputation and name faster, pick a "type of client" and focus on that.
Your knowledge will become more valuable for that type of client more quickly than if you do * any kind of work * as so many seem to and all you learn on each job can be applied to the next etc etc ..
Obviously define your niche so you dont have to work for direct competitors but I think you know what I mean ...
i.e. just dont do a hairdressers site, a politicians manifesto and then expect to be taken seriously to develop a custom content management system for a major government department communications initiative :-)
you know just does not gonna happen that way :-)
I think www.elance.com is a good place to start finding projects with a registration fee
Check it out!
I've been having Elance as a constant source of income for a few months, but had a lived in US, I would not even think about looking for work there.
Right now I'm concentrating on finding bad or broken sites, in addition to finding new clients. The broken sites have given me some good leads.
Imagine a site for a real estate firm where the page with all of their properties takes 25 minutes to load on a dialup. Who in the world designed that site?
All my sites came from referrals.
This past June was 3 years that I quit my full-time job. I learned web design 3-1/2 years ago, but my husband is the bread winner.
You have an incredible amount of skills. I think you can do well.
I got started designing 2 sites for free, then my next one for $250, then $400, then I got one for $2500, then from that one, the guy's brother contacted me - a big attorney - and that was my biggest one yet.
I picked an industry and called every business in the yellow pages. It took a lot of time, and a lot of call backs, and a lot of notes to remember names and when to call back, but I got one, then another.
Good luck!
Risa
Lawyers all know one another because they are required to belong to their state Bar Association and they have constant dealings with one another.
I've let them become my network and do the networking on my behalf. I haven't had to knock on doors for 3 years. I also make it a requirement that I host their sites. So I'm a reseller and what costs me about $12.00 a month per site I charge them $34.95. This provides me with steady income even during lean months.
Also, by targeting lawyers you rarely get haggled over the price because how are they going to complain about you charging $50 an hour when they charge $100+ an hour.
Words of advice: Make one person at the firm the point man. If you ask for input from every partner in the firm you're going to end up stepping on egos. Let your point man tell the senior partner that it's unprofessional to have an animated gif of the dog running across the bottom of the page on their homepage.
What this also has allowed me to do is when I find a new service or program to offer (I recently added a Live Chat service) I can mass email all my clients with a bent towards their profession instead of having to tailor it to each individual client.
It also means that I get tons of milage out of the Photodisc/Legal Industry stock photo CD I bought...
There are dozens of other similar niches out there to target. Denistry, Auto Sales, Real Estate, etc...
So I'm a reseller and what costs me about $12.00 a month per site I charge them $34.95. This provides me with steady income even during lean months.
Doesn't this make you feel the least bit guilty? I mean I mark up my resold hosting by a couple of bucks, but almost 300%? You better hope those Lawyers don't do a little research on the actual cost of web hosting....
As far as the actual topic of this thread, I made the mistake of trying to compete on Elance for work before I realized I was competing against guys in India that charge $10/hr. Bad idea. Most of my work comes from referrals, and from direct marketing. By direct marketing I mean personalized letters to local companies explaining my services and what I can do for them. One successful letter out of 20 is WELL worth it!
Not really. I get this deep discount due to the number of sites I host with my hosting company. If they decided to host with the same company I host through it would cost them $29.95.
The price for being the middle man though is that I have to pretty much be available 24/7. Luckily the company I host with is very reliable and very seldom has problems.
I also did try lowering my hosting prices and there was an overwhelming outcry of concern that the reliability and service would also go down.
That is pretty much how some people see it! This industry is still relatively new and you will come across a lot of people who doesn't see webdesign etc as a skill and will compare it to flipping burgers - anyone can do it. So beware of that!
Ivana
Actually, since I went from 100% freelancing to freelancing + working at a web-based firm, my hot leads have tripled. You meet a lot of people who are looking for web services - and not always those that your organization in particular provides.
dickbaker, here's a few diamand's for you.
1. You are suited "prefectly" for the adult industry. There is alot of $$$$ in this industry and they are always looking for some very good site designers and with your background in "photography and Photoshop; a solid background in writing ad copy; a good working knowledge of Flash, ASP, MS Access, SQL and other aspects of website development" you would be a slamdunk in that biz. You would have wwway more work then you can handle and the best part is that "all" these guys have big $$$ to spend and they network so once your in, your really "all in".
<stay clear of adult topics please>
2.If I had your skill, I would go where the money is and we all know that the money is in affilate programs. There are lots of affilate websites out there, diet pills(rxaffiliateforum) , gambling, travel, gulfclubs ext.... now, alot of the people who build there own affilate sites don't have great web designing skills and they would rather pay someone who does have the skills so that they can spend more time doing other things. This as with the adult stuff, would be a great thing for you to contact some of the affilate directors at some of the different programs and see if they can use your skills (i'm betting my money they can:)....
These potental customers(IMHO) would rather deal with someone here in the states that they can just pick-up the phone (day or night) and call an get a live responds and get some stuff done. Hope this helps you and any others out there:). Later.
teeceo.
[edited by: Travoli at 12:43 pm (utc) on Oct. 14, 2003]
Golf courses? Sure. I've been cold-calling a lot of them, and have been developing some leads.
It's been sixteen years since I had to do pure cold calls to generate business. I forgot how hard that is to do.
Now I know how telemarketers feel. ;)
Just to put this part of it out there 1 last time, I really do think that alot of affilate directors from "all kinds" of different sites would love to have you and the great thing about them is that they have a ton of cash to spend on there affiliatecontent and ads, so I would STRONLY suggest that you don't just overlook them. I'm out....
teeceo.
Especially find one that isn't being well-served now, and one that you will enjoy working in. If golf courses suit your fancy, write or compile a set of industry specific scripts and programs. Maybe one script would draw local data from weather.com, another might log T-times so visitors could know which ones are open. You'll think of dozens of such specialized features. Become an expert on delivering Web solutions for golf courses.
Create an easy-to-use administrative interface so your clients' clerks can update info without the expense of having to call on you. Clients love having that kind of option, but you'll find that they often call on you to do content updates anyway, and you can feel good about charging plenty for the service because you do offer a less expensive option. With your Access/ASP background, you could also connect the site to an existing Access database on their local network--or offer such a local database as an additional service.
By creating a set of industry specific scripts and programs like this, you can use it over and over, and simply put a new skin on it for each client, with scripted options for a variety of behaviors. The result is that you will be able to make money delivering a service that a generic designer would have to charge many times more for while only eking by. Your clients will feel like they've hit a hole in one every day, and so will you.
It's working for me. Like others in this thread, 100% of my business comes from referrals. Some of them are so enthusiastic that often my biggest worry is that I won't be able to live up to the level that my existing clients promote my service. Anyway, at the moment I have all the work I can handle, prospective clients sometimes act almost as if they are auditioning to get me, and the last few months, for the first time, I've been referring away business that isn't exactly in my niche. It can work for you, too.
Salsa [webmasterworld.com]
Over the years that I've been an advertising photographer, I've nailed down some niche markets: high-end men's shoes, large-set photography (cars, motorcycles, fake room sets, etc), and most recently a Photoshop-driven style that has appealed successfully to the teen-driven markets.
That was easy, at least compared to trying to sell website work.
I've looked at realtors, home builders, funeral homes, golf courses/country clubs, insurance agencies---you name it, I've probably checked them out.
Probably 99% of them already have sites, and the ones that don't are having their high-school kid work on the site that will be up "someday." Many of the sites already out there don't work, but the owners seem to accept that fact and don't want to spend money to repair the sites. Yet they leave them up.
I'm not asking anyone to give away their sales secrets, but if anyone can pass along a bit more advice, I'd sure welcome it.
The thing is, I'm just as excited now about doing websites as I was about doing photography many years back. I've pretty much photographed everything that walks, crawls or sits. You can only photograph a telephone so many times before you want to scream.
But the challenge of trying to create a fast-loading, database-driven, SEO perfect site that actually results in increased sales for clients has me excited.
The problem seems to be getting potential clients to be as excited as I am about the prospect. ;)
Its all about client choice .. some sectors, as you have found, are not keen to spend money or think that kiddy X or Y is sufficient for their needs.
I advise you only target sectors which are already spending money on marketing communications of various sorts, especially those involved in direct response promotion.
Those companies will understand the issues and are more likely to "get it" where it comes to "net marketing communications".
Dont forget that there can be significant lead times involved in actually getting web projects off the ground so you need to have a continuing promotion effort yourself to seed the future.
If it was easy why would they need someone like you :-)
I've sent out very personalized letters to a variety of businesses, all of whom have competitors who utilize websites to great advantage: home builders, realty companies, and funeral homes in particular. A few days to a week later, I'll call to discuss the idea of a site for their company.
What seems to happen is that the owner sounds excited, then says "I need to talk to Kathy about this;call me next Monday ." I call, get pushed back again. And again.
In the letters I give two example sites that show what I can do in terms of design, of technical expertise, of real sales results, and in terms of SEO results. I point to one site in particular as an example of the aforementioned results. I've increased traffic to the site from the 700 visitors a month they had last year to over 15,000 a month now--and this is a small retail store with no shopping cart.
As I write this, I wonder if the problem is that this site is for a gun store. The other site that I mention is for a real estate title insurance company.
Any input would again be welcome. I feel like I'm trying to sell ice to eskimos.
You've got to go where the money is.
Of course, I'm not suggesting you go around robbing banks and such.
Look for a product that has a good mark-up, can fit in an envelope or Fed Ex pouch which has potential customers anywhere and everywhere. There are plenty of examples, and many of them are highly competitive already on the web.
What you want to stay away from is most anyone who's customers are commonly within an hour's drive.
You'll see that funeral parlors, golf courses, home repair and the like all fit in the latter category, not the former.
Good luck!
How many mailers did you do? In direct mail they say a 1% response rate is good so if you want 10 responses you had better send out 1000, statictically speaking. That being said I don't know how effective direct mail would be in this business, never tried it.
In the meantime contact other designers and see if you can help them out as a sub contractor.
>> I've been in the advertising industry for just over 25 years
What about your contacts in the advertising industry. That could be a goldmine.
Regarding the cold calling and being pushed back issues.
Many client companies will keep "pushing back" it is to be expected because :
1) web sites for corporates are usually a complicated purchase decision involving group decision making and some work on their part as well as yours.
2) the likelyhood of your calling when they have just made the decision, yes we want a website and we want it now! are very small.
I could tell you my expected lead time between first contact and first work, but you might be dissolusioned by that :-)
Suffice to say most of my types of customers once they start actually purchasing work, keep coming back for more sites, additional functionality etc etc ...
Sounds like you are building your name awareness :-) keep at it .. rome was not built in a day.
