Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 18.207.136.184

Forum Moderators: LifeinAsia

Message Too Old, No Replies

Difference between and

What is the difference?

     
10:55 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 15, 2003
posts:266
votes: 0


Could someone please explain the difference between the following symbols:

I'm guessing that is the symbol for Trademark and is the symbol for Registered Trademark. So the first one is for a trademark that is not registered, and the second one is a symbol for one that is?

Do you have to file any paperwork with any entity in order to make the first symbol legit, or is simply using the symbol good enough? How much protection does it give you?

And what does one have to do in order to be able to use the second symbol legitimately? How much does it cost?

Please advise.

11:00 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member digitalghost is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 23, 2002
posts:3687
votes: 0


When can I use the trademark symbols TM, SM and ?

Any time you claim rights in a mark, you may use the "TM" (trademark) or "SM" (service mark) designation to alert the public to your claim, regardless of whether you have filed an application with the USPTO. However, you may use the federal registration symbol "" only after the USPTO actually registers a mark, and not while an application is pending. Also, you may use the registration symbol with the mark only on or in connection with the goods and/or services listed in the federal trademark registration.

[lawcommerce.com...]

11:25 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 15, 2003
posts:266
votes: 0


Great. Thanks a lot!

Here is the direct link to the acceptable goods and services in case anyone needs it:

[uspto.gov...]

11:28 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 15, 2003
posts:266
votes: 0


By the way, how long does one have before one has to register the good/service? Why wouldn't everyone just use the TM symbol and save the hassle/cost of registering? How much protection does the TM symbol actually offer?
11:35 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 22, 2002
posts:4663
votes: 0


No one actually HAS to register for their trademark, but it offers much more protection incase someone decides they want to use the same business name as you are using (either deliberately or coincidently) or use a name that is "confusingly similar" to yours.

Completing the registration process is definitely the way to go. While you have a trademark pending or haven't started the process at all, it becomes much more difficult to prove you were the first business to use that particular term. But once a trademark is granted and you can use the symbol, it is easy to prove your ownership should the need arise.

11:48 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 15, 2003
posts:266
votes: 0


Great explanation! Thanks!
1:39 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 27, 2003
posts:664
votes: 0


How much protection does the TM symbol actually offer

Laws vary from country to country, but where I am from (and generally countries which derive their legal system from the British), this is my understanding:

The TM symbol is just a 'deterant'. You don't need to show the TM symbol for the mark to be a trademark, and you can defend a trademark whether or not the TM symbol is there. I agree with Jenstar that it is easier to defend a registered trademark, but with an unregistered trademark, it makes little difference whether the TM sign is there or not, except perhaps to show your intent.

Shawn

1:46 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 22, 2002
posts:4663
votes: 0


to show your intent.

This is a good point. Also, the TM sign often will make people stop and think before they take. There are surprisingly many people who think that just because the business/name/product isn't as well known as a big corporation, that it is just fine to go ahead and use that name too. So a TM sign can be a deterent in that regard as well.

2:03 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 15, 2003
posts:266
votes: 0


...the TM sign often will make people stop and think before they take. There are surprisingly many people who think that just because the business/name/product isn't as well known as a big corporation, that it is just fine to go ahead and use that name too. So a TM sign can be a deterent in that regard as well.

That is exactly why I am doing it. Thanks.

2:09 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 4, 2000
posts:3468
votes: 0


I found a Malaysian company once using my business name - on a tripod domain :) - perhaps if I'd been using the 'tm' instead, they would have thought twice? Hm.

Good reason to include it on my 'brands' then, as every time I see one of those marks -> it feels more 'official', wonder too if that might help sales in some way?

That would be an interesting side effect of it, since it might instill a degree of consumer confidence. Imagine - TM = brand protection + $$$, possibly.

Fascinating stuff you learn here. :)

2:20 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 22, 2002
posts:4663
votes: 0


perhaps if I'd been using the 'tm' instead, they would have thought twice? Hm.

This is precisely why I use it now, because I had someone do that exact thing, then claim total ignorance. I am hoping others will now think twice, because it is so common to see it as an official and legal mark these days.

Interesting thought about consumer confidence. I have the name with the TM all over a couple of my sites, since the names are very brandable. I am going to have to go back and see if there was any noticeable difference from before and after I began using the TM. I agree that I feel more comfortable when I see the TM or , but I had never considered it from the sellers point of view in terms of being a possible reason for increased sales.

2:22 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 27, 2003
posts:664
votes: 0


I agree with the 'deterant' and the 'looking official' arguments. It is similar to the (c) symbol. If you write and publish something you have copyright over it; whether or not you explicitly put a copyright symbol. But if you do put the symbol, people think twice.

Shawn

2:33 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 22, 2002
posts:4663
votes: 0


LOL, then I hope the TM will work out better for me than the copyright symbol. I've had people steal my content, complete with my copyright symbol, date and name, and place it on their own site - and not all of them even end up changing the name to their own when they do it ;) Far too many people completely ignore that little copyright symbol, at least in my experience.
2:38 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 4, 2000
posts:3468
votes: 0


Never use the copyright on my sites, stuff still gets stolen. :(

Perhpas, though, if even a smaller % of the time, stuff got stolen, it would be worth it? hm.

2:44 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 22, 2002
posts:4663
votes: 0


I also have "No portion of this site may be reproduced or redistributed without prior written permission from ___" on every page as well, right below the copyright notice, and that hasn't seemed to help either. But if maybe there is still a small percent of theives who might decide not to copy because of it, I'll leave there. Never quite thought of it that way, that there is a small minority that might deterred by legal sounding jargon at the bottom ;) I just thought it was all largely ignored by all.
 

Join The Conversation

Moderators and Top Contributors

Hot Threads This Week

Featured Threads

Free SEO Tools

Hire Expert Members