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Non-paying client - who has rights to search engine position links?

immediate suggestions please

         

seofan

3:41 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm going to try to keep a long story short.

A very wealthy business owner hired me to do SEO, 6 month duration. Their site was hosted to where their web site was protected by the host/designer for proprietary code. I was not allowed to alter the site files.

I built a sub-directory on my own site focused on obtaining the positions in the search engines. It currently holds 1-10 positions in 9 of the 10 key phrases they chose. Those site files pulled all of their website images and structure to my subdirectory, however, I created content and SEO structures and hosted it as a subdirectory in my domain.

I was paid 1/2 up front. I presented position reports and analysis for upcoming positioning. They refused to pay me the 2nd half ($2,500.00) saying that their sales had not increased and "dared" me to even ask for it again, threatening lawyers would be contacted.

I waited the 6 months that I had agreed to before I changed the links in my subdirectory (created for them) to go to my home page. I wanted to keep the established positions in the search engines as part of a portfolio of work. I also discontinued using their images and web material generated from their host and their domain.

They have now demanded that I take down my subdirectory, which is now only text on the pages (what I created) that holds the pages that are indexed in the search engines. They say I am stealing their traffic. My pages do reference their business name, because it is in the text I created for their campaign.

My company is just a small, but effective company in SEO. I don't have money for lawsuits, particularly up against someone who has millions (them).

My point is......if my work is good enough to "steal their traffic" in a significant way, why isn't it good enough for them to pay the rest of their agreement?

What are the suggestions as to what I should do? I feel like this is my intellectual property. Anyone else gone through something similar like this?

Mike_Mackin

3:50 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Is there a written agreement?

seofan

4:01 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have a general work order, but there are no stipulations concerning intellectual property rights. It states the scope of 6 months for the campaign duration and the amount to be paid in total. This client was "a friend's boyfriend". We did not construct one of our company's official contracts that are very detailed.

I had not done work for a "friend" before, but have since. Everybody gets the full contract - no matter what. The non-payment issue almost a year ago set our contract policy in stone - "No contract, no work". Ah, but this one client and their issues keep coming back to haunt us.

john316

4:09 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>My pages do reference their business name<<

I would get rid of that.

Not sure how you could be "stealing" traffic. You don't control search engines.

rogerd

4:12 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator 10+ Year Member



One key element, seofan, is in your initial line: "very wealthy". If he is willing to pay lawyers to pursue this, and you aren't willing to pay your own legal fees, the actual merits of the case won't matter all that much.

Frankly, I think having his company's name on your site is not a good thing to do. Even if he didn't pay you, it's still probably some sort of trademark violation.

Best approach: negotiate an additional payment, either payment in full or partial payment, in return for removing the content or leaving it in place with linkage to his site. This would be a win-win.

Fallback approach: Remove his company name and any trademarks, but leave the generic product/service content in place. (He may still argue that he paid for that content, but your counterargument is he breached the contract by not paying the second installment.) This might serve to siphon off some traffic from the guy without actually violating his intellectual property.

Second Fallback: Remove the content, write this off as a bad experience, and move on to other opportunities.

Third Fallback: If you aren't afraid of lawyers, convert the pages into "Why I Won't Do Business with XYZ Co. Again" and provide a factual description of your experience. Protest sites are common enough - I've seen them for Terminix (customer's house was destroyed by termites), Saturn (unhappy with warranty service), Nestle (people don't like baby milk marketing), etc. You can be reasonably sure he'll sue you, but you'd have an even stronger bargaining chip for a negotiated settlement. This approach isn't for the faint of heart.

I'd probably opt for walking away instead of devoting more time & money to beating a dead horse...

seofan

4:17 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Well john316, their domain didn't show up in search engines at all......and it still doesn't. All they see is my work up there in the positions that they wanted (but didn't pay). Amazing how some people are - if they can't have it, they don't want you to have it either.

Bad thing is....the owner really swings his money around in a vicious way.

Yep - I think I agree. Just remove all text references to their business name altogether.

You know, I can't help what titles show up on the search engines :) My pages will be right though :)

Marcia

4:20 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



seofan, this is an unofficial personal opinion of course, and you should get local legal counsel. But you should gather all the documentation you can - including screenshots of the site pages AND - as quickly as possible because the update is any time now - screenshots of the serps PLUS the cache - and print them out with the date. You can save the HTML right out of the cache. It's better if it can also be done by a third party as verification. That's all just common sense.

It's only personal opinion gathered, but my understanding that the basics of a contract consist of an offer and acceptance. You offered services, they ordered services and paid half - so they accepted. It sounds like they just decided they didn't want to pay any more.

Did you offer positioning, or sales and a return on their investment? How much guarantee was given? It sounds like they owe you the money, though it's doubtful you'd ever get any more no matter what.

As far as intellectual property is concerned, who wrote the text? If their name is taken off and replaced with John Jones Widget Company, what about the rest of the text? What if it were modified and the traffic sold to a competitor of theirs? What if it's 301'd to different web space?

They are not paying for rental of the web space those files are on, I'm curious as to why they think they have any control over what's on it. I'd take screenshots of everything, and with the pages take them before removal of any trace of their name, definitely take their name off and take a screenshot after to show them removed.

I'd make sure to preserve all evidence in the event he'd try to get his initial $2,500 back. At least you got that, so it's not a total loss. There are people who haven't gotten payment up front, did work and then couldn't get payment at all.

Disclaimer: Not by any means legal advice or competent opinion, just personal opinion which may or may not be correct. Local laws should be checked and counsel should be sought.

[edited by: Marcia at 4:31 pm (utc) on Oct. 23, 2002]

DaveN

4:20 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Remove the company name and replace with "demo company-name" is way you can protect your work without giving away other clients confidentiality.

Or

Approach a competitor of theirs and change the company name and details to suit them.

DaveN

Edited also agree with Marcia check out local laws

[edited by: DaveN at 4:23 pm (utc) on Oct. 23, 2002]

john316

4:21 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>Yep - I think I agree. Just remove all text references to their business name altogether.<<

Find another related business/competitor who is willing to pay for the traffic and replace the current business name.

seofan

4:37 pm on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think that is an excellent approach Marcia, DaveN and john316........plenty of people in our state that would salivate at the search engine positions under very desirable phrases.

Generic pages it is.....till the new owner gets the pages and traffic.

Marcia, I gave the owner 5 portfolio examples of positioning and gave him a range that I expect results to be in over a percentage of the total key words that are targeted. I don't guarantee positions, but ususally have no problem at all meeting high-level, percentage-based goals. We had no discussions concerning my involvement in any other phase of marketing for the website nor any benchmarks on sales or visitors. That was to be monitored by his in-house marketing manager.

I developed all of the text for the sub-directory, so it was not a product of their work. It also amazed me that this owner thinks that the links in the engines is his property too. My mouth has been open in disbelief all morning.

Thanks all.....I've just realized that I need to bury the dead horse and go get a new one.