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My site was shut down

Should I find a bullet proof host?

         

Web_Ox

11:38 am on Oct 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Last year, I built a website so that I could share some memorabilia with my dad (he lives out of state and just got into the computer).

The website contained hard-to-find documents, pictures, audio, and video of Werner Erhard and the est Training. For those of you who don't know, Werner Erhard was an enigmatic cult leader from San Francisco. He started an organization called est which became the Forum and Landmark Education. In 1991, Werner was accused on "60 Minutes" of some horrible acts. In response, he sold his company, fled the country, and hasn't been heard of since.

I didn't promote the website, nor did I try to make any money from it, but I must have ruffled some feathers because an attorney contacted my host and asked them to remove the site for copyright reasons, which they did.

I don't feel I was infringing on any copyright.

I am thinking about finding an alternative way to host.

What would you do?

HarryM

12:21 pm on Oct 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I would consider a) whether I wanted to continue with the site, and b) double-check for copyright infringements. Then I might consider hosting outside the US (assuming that's where you are). If it's a .com site it should still show in world-wide serps, but it would be more difficult for a US attorney to lean on your host.

Another thing I would check was who the attorney was representing. If it was a Government agency, then copyright may not have been the real issue.

Having said that, I am leery of putting up anything that could be considered contentious on the web. Before the invasion of Iraq I had an innocent picture of a location in Southern Iraq, let's say XXX. A week or so before the invasion my stats for that page went through the roof, and all the traffic was from US military domain names. My guess is that people were coming out of briefings thinking "Attack XXX? Where's that? Duh..." and then looking it up on the internet and getting my page. A big security leak, and I was not surprised when the attack did start at XXX.

No problem with that as such, but a couple of days later someone was trying to drop spyware on my site. I traced it back to a site for a defunct US automobile agency. In the small print it said it was supported by the CIA. Made me feel quite paranoid!

photocartoonist

7:54 pm on Oct 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I am familiar with EST, as well as Landmark Education. Landmark Education is a business who is very careful about protecting their assets. I think you have a real copyright infringement issue there. You are not allowed to make tapes or take photos in any seminar or training. You can talk about your experiences, make commentary, sure but I would consult with an IP attorney about the specific content you had on the site.

Frankly I am disappointed that anyone would advise on how to get around US copyright laws by hosting in another country. But alas this is the real world.

HarryM

8:18 pm on Oct 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



photocartooist, I was not suggesting anyone get around US copyright laws. Courts elswhere can be just as strict. I was suggesting that a non-US hosting company cannot be leaned on quite as heavily by a US-based attorney. Fear of litigation - although spreading - is still primarily a US phenomenon.

Furthermore part of the question was 'should I find a bullet proof host?'

photocartoonist

4:01 am on Oct 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



HarryM, I understand the concerns and I agree with the general assessment of the US being a litigious society. You are right that other countries have even stricter copyright laws but what is this bullet-proof hosting?

amznVibe

5:38 am on Oct 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



There are hosts that specialize in hosting sites that are subject to bogus legal attacks. Google for "free speech hosting" or similar. NearlyFreeSpeech.net is one host that comes to mind, they took over for bugmenot.com when their first host caved in too easily.

Web_Ox

3:04 pm on Oct 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



HarryM, photocartoonist, amznVibe, thank you for you comments.

Regarding copyright and free speech, I believe my situtation falls under the Fair use exception of the U. S. Copyright Act.

U.S. COPYRIGHT ACT § 108. Limitations on exclusive rights states that it is ok to reproduce libraries and archives as long as the intent is non-commercial and is for private study scholarship, and research. For more information, Google "108. Limitations on exclusive rights: Reproduction by libraries and archives"

All my website contained was some old photos, letters, and press clippings from the 1970's. It's was my dad's archive that he collected for the past 30 years.

To avoid the IRS and many law suites, Werner Erhard's orgaization (est) changed names and ownership many times. It was owned by a mulitude of off shore companies, and there are documents showing a complicated money laundering scheme.

So, in dealing with a out-of-business cult with a controversial past, who's to say who owns a copyright to what.

The attorney never contacted me. He just sent a threatening letter to my host demanding the site be removed. I think I'll contact him and see what their beef is.

Kirby

4:48 am on Oct 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>In 1991, Werner was accused on "60 Minutes" of some horrible acts. In response, he sold his company, fled the country, and hasn't been heard of since

Ask the attorney if he thinks 60 Minutes would be interested in a follow-up story based on this correspondence.

opiesilver

4:46 am on Oct 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



If you really wanted to keep this up for just your family, just have your home internet service changed to a business account with a static IP. Then setup a web server and give your Dad the IP. Example [123.45.6.789...]

bird

11:30 am on Oct 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If you really want to keep this up for just your family, put it behind a password that only your family knows. That way, you're not "publishing" anything, which avoids most copyright problems.