Forum Moderators: LifeinAsia
I designed a small site for her, spent around 7 hours working on it, and she came back to me saying her business is now expanding, she'll have two partners and need me to completely redesign the site. From scratch.
At this point I'm becoming disinterested in the project, mainly because I'm afraid she's going to keep making changes willy-nilly and doesn't understand the investment of time. She also wants for me to teach her how to update the site.
In the beginning I thought this was going to be a short-term project, but it's becoming more than that.
How do I politely say "Can we talk about financial arrangements now that you're asking for more than originally did?"
See how that goes down.
Mack.
Lesson to me: It is probably best to set something in stone before starting such things.
half,
I like the polite line you stated above as well as Mack's example. No matter what you use, if your friend decides to go further with you, make sure you create a well-focused contract with a firm agreement on payment terms, then both sign it.
Why would the whole thing need to be done from the ground-up? That's insane! :) Tweaking, content changes, extra pages - I can see those things. But a complete re-do? Wow.
I would say something along the lines of, "I'm so glad I was able to spend time helping you get started on the web. Since you are happy with the work I did, I would be happy to take you on as a client if you would like me to keep working on your site." (With a big smile on your face!)
I would sit down with her to map out the new site and the first question you should ask is, "What is your budget for this project?"
This lets her know that there will need to be an outlay of cash for the work you will do and it will also allow you to better guide her through what features are available in her price range.
This also allows you to creep in some of your charges for the work you've previously done.
I would sit down with her to map out the new site and the first question you should ask is, "What is your budget for this project?" [snip] This also allows you to creep in some of your charges for the work you've previously done.
Personally, I would never ask a client about their budget. I make a proposal and either they accept or not, both of us reserving the right to negotiate. Also, not so sure about the creeping of charges in either. I recommend hitting it head on, with tact (as in the examples above), and lay out what you expect.
My only addition(s) would be my rates are $x per hour. My terms are with 50% in advance, billing monthly and payments due within 10 days or receipt of invoice. (you might want to lower the 50%, your call)
Don't waste their time listening to what they need and then hit them with "You are paying for this.". Tell them up front and with a bit of a positive spin (the liked my previous work).
Good Luck,
Shane
Exactly. Although since they are a friend first and a potential client second, you need to make sure you clearly set out all of your expectations. How you like to communicate business stuff, how you invoice, what they can expect from you when you deliver, etc. That way there will be no assumptions (and consequently surprises) with the business relationship.
I've done business with friends successfully a few times ... but it can be a little tricky.
Not routinely, although I do offer them service on a sliding scale. That is, if I know they can pay full price, they pay full price. If they couldn't afford me otherwise and I have time to spare to do the work, I'll do it at what they can afford.
> perhaps i should consider what i've done so far the discounted part?
I would probably advise against that. I'm not sure there's a polite way make that transition retroactively. :) It's kind of like saying, "Hey! You know that gift I gave you? Well it wasn't a gift. HA!"
No, I meant perhaps I should just charge full price starting now. What's a typical hourly rate for someone with a couple of years experience who doesn't typically freelance? She wants to know my rate. Should I just set something up where I say 5 page website is $****? Or should I go hourly?
If it were me, I'd negotiate with this person and start full price work from here on out. (That's if you want to do the work and get paid a fair wage for it.)
A back-of-the-envelope way to figure what you should be paid hourly at your current salary is this:
Take your current salary in thousands, chop that number in half, and that's your hourly rate.
Here are a few examples: if you want to make the equivalent of $80,000 per year, you need to charge $40 per hour. If you know that a full-time person doing this job makes $70,000 per year, then charge $35.
(Note: this isn't the best way to figure a full time freelance rate, because you need to figure taxes and benefits and so on. But it's a good way to guesstimate.)
That way there will be no assumptions (and consequently surprises) with the business relationship.
Smart move. Think through your discussions points regarding how you want to transact business with this person and make notes. Then cover each point during the discussion. It does not have to be a big deal but you should cover them.
Hawkgirls comments on make no assumptions/get no surprises (okay, I paraphrase) is wise.
Good Luck,
Shane
She asked me how much I charge and I said, let's not worry about it right now. She indicated that she plans to play me.
Not to be the cat amongst the pigeons but she asked you up front how much it would cost. It seems to me you're slightly where you are as you said not to worry for the time being. At this stage she has no idea if your $10/hr or $1000/hr.
IMO discussing what you charge up front is imperitive. That way everyone knows where they stand.
You're definitely going to need to spell out your rates from here on. You're also going to have to think really hard about how you handle the work done to date. Not charging anything devalues your work (IMHO) but whatever you charge she may come back and say hey you never told me it would cost this much and if you had I would never have taken you on.
You probably should address why you didn't give her prices in the first place (thought it was a small job, did it as a family favour, wanted to show you what you can do etc). Then maybe give some incentive to work with you in the future - eg say "to date what I've done would usually be $**** however if you contract me to re-design/update the site I'm willing to deduct it (or a percentage) from the final bill.
Goober. ;-)
..... Shane
Since I'm in a time crunch with another paying client right now I believe the most time-efficient thing would be to [do xyz to address latest change you requested on the site]. We should discuss exactly if/how you'd like to move forward at some point.
I asked her to outline what she'd like in this new site and told her I will evaluate and make a proposal to move forward.
Sound alright?
Sanity -- thanks, I will def. address why I didn't give her prices in the first place and it is exactly that: I thought it was a small job.
I don't think she means to play me! I should've been more straightforward about pricing in the beginning. Thanks all.
