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I recently completed a site, generated and sent an invoice.
"OK, thanks, we should be able to get you some cash in a couple of days".
One month later and I'm still waiting. The owner of the sites business is of a seasonal nature, (Dog sledding) and the cash hasn't started to flow just yet.
How long should I/we expect to wait before the cheque arrives?
I guess that the Hydro, Cable etc. have to wait about a month to get some coin out of me.
Thanks, Cameron
Strictly speaking, I would advise you to include payment terms on your invoice.
If I was not actually hosting the site, I think it may be wise to request payment prior to releasing the source, although if it is a non dynamic site it would be difficult to enforce.
Perhaps another method would be to request an upfront payment, prior to commencing work. At least this way, you have something.
Best regards
Shady!
Thanks for your thoughts. I didn't bother to ask for a deposit or place a "30 days net" on the bill.
Next time I will be making some changes in the way I invoice.
It's Five O'clock Somewhere.....
Cameron
And be sure to be gracious and thank them for the work.
And then start using a standard invoice template that has the "thanks for the opportunity to do this work!" and "payment terms: net 30 days" for all of your future work.
Bill everything Due on Receipt. Net 15? Net 30? ...Net Nothing! Finish job, get paid. CASH FLOW IS KING.
Now everything is Due on Receipt meaning the customer will generally take 5 to 10 days to pay regardless.
I've also recently started requiring my clients that have a recurring monthly charge such as hosting or site maintenance sign up with PayPal and they are charged their fee automatically every month. I was spending too much time sending out $19.95 invoices and chasing these small amounts. If they didn't want to use PayPal they had to pay for a years service in advance or find a new host. Only lost one account and they were a pain in the ass to start with so I was actually glad to see them go.
CASH IS KING!
I just recieved an email from them saying that I will get a cheque in a few days. Hoo-ray!
They're good people, just a little slow at getting things done.
I put the standard "Thank you for trusting in my services" tag line on the invoice.
The next job will be at least half up-front and balance due on completion.
Thanks for your input!
It's Five O'Clock Somewhere....
Cameron
If you don't plan to deal well with Net 30 (which too often really means Net 33), then don't plan on playing with larger organizations. Net 30 has become standard in the B2B world.
I used to think folks were rude with their "Well, we pay Net 30". But, it has, in fact, become the norm with the bigger players.
Some are even worse. As best I can tell, a well-known hardware manufacturer agrees only to pay Net 60. Take it or leave it, dude.
It is my opinion that if you plan to move forward with your business, you might as well get used to Net 30.
As far as Net 30 becoming a standard in the business to business world...I humbly disagree. And not having any contracts with bigger organizations? I once again disagree. We contract with many large (some household-name large) businesses and not one of them scoffs at our Net due on receipt Invoices.
Obviously, it is going to be different for everybody and each client will have to be handled accordingly. In my own humble opinion, and my own experiences, I'm stating a simple business fact: if you can get Net due on receipt, DO IT.
On a lighter note, watch out for non-profit orgs, they are ten times worse than any large business! ;)
I am not self-employed. I am an employee of the corporation that 5 years ago was headquartered in my living room.
If we owed money to a small organization, such as a self-employed individual, and he wanted to break from the standard Net 30, I'd understand and would honor it.
But the wheels in truly large organizations do not turn very fast. Generally the person making the deal doesn't have any sort of control over how fast payment is made; it may even be determined in a different state, by people he's never even met. They have rules written in stone, and the payment rule is, almost without fail, Net 30.
Don't even get me started on non-profits, coopster! They take all the fun out of giving - by continuing to ask and ask (and you give and give and give) until you have no alternative but to say no. Now that great feeling you got when you gave is gone, gone, gone, replaced by a low caused by saying no. There is no limit to what some of them will ask for.
When some one says "Well, you know we're a non-profit"
Just say "Well, you know we're not."
Ok, maybe just THINK it.
I simply set out my terms and conditions within their stated framework. I also price accordingly. If, for example, their stated policy is payment in thirty days I add the equivalent of thirty days interest to my total (quietly - not stated!). I then note on my invoice the net 30 with a note that they can save x$ if paid within 15 days. About half pay early. I also note on my invoice that amounts owing past thirty days accrue interest at x%. Very few let it drag and they pay the interest.
My contract always states that my work (i.e. the web site) belongs totally to me until I am paid in full. Only once did I have to go to court (I won) and once the threat was enough.
The key is not to think of yourself as a web designer or as an SEO but as a business and conduct yourself accordingly. Your clients do.
I guess that we all must act as a business, and set our own rules.
And then be prepared to break them when needed.
Now, what forms do you use (if any) to "cover your ass" and set out the "rules" for the client? Who owns what, who gets paid when, the party of the third part and all that jazz?
Cameron
I promise you that this is more of a protection that you know, and if not sooner, later will protect you IN CASE anything arrises.
Best Wishes!
Net 30 for larger organizations is now the standard. I provide hosting along with other services and for that I like the payment one month in advance (i.e. pay on the 1st for 1st through end of month).
But, the larger organizations don't seem to be able to easily handle this because of the Net 30 policy. The solution that works for me is to invoice them 60 days in advance.....then it goes through their Net 30 system and still arrives on time.
But the lady in charge of the cash was off sick and returned my call on Friday.
Half of the amount due is paid now.
And yes I will be doing things a bit differently from now on.
Cameron
ddesign, my sincere apologies, as your post was half way down the message list I missed the posts:#1. Most first posts are initiating threads, nice to see someone that leaps right in trying to help someone else :)
A heart felt welcome to WW! on behalf of almost all of us in this thread and 99.9% of the other members ;)
There will always be a few with a different point of view....personally I thought your original post was on the money and good advice for the vast majority.
Many of us are competitors here, and not many are going to give away secrets to the magic source (especially in the SEO biased forums), but on issues like this we should at least have some unity or at least professional courtesy :)
I didn't realize this forum was a location for snide smart ass posts. But
Whoooops! Sorry! Sorry! I really was not meaning to be smart ass and to offend. Very Very Sorry
I was trying to make a point by using HUMOROUS sarcasm, not rudeness. You see while I wrote that previous post I wrote it exactly as I would have said it as we sat across the table from one another talking about how to make website design work. If you could see my face you could see I was smiling and a little twinkle or gleam in my eye. I only write like that to make the point, but am very sorry to offend. I truly feel like we website designers are not nearly as valuable as many of us might think we are and I have fun trying to put it in a view that the customers may see when they deal with us. We do have skills but I work trade shows a few time a yer and I get a really HUGE amount of people who tell me how aloof and arrogant a lot of web design people are to deal with and I hear a lot of other very interesting comments and sometimes I think that some of us might be better served to learn more customer friendly skills. I have had much success by being VERY helpful, fast, caring and honest and on time with my services and I just haven't got burned. Then again, most of my websites are in the range of $400.00 to $1000.00 and I have not dealt with huge corporations who want lawyers to be involved.
PLEASE forgive tome of my post if it comes across as RUDE. I was just trying to make a point with a little humorous look at ourselves as I think our customers often might see us.
Your post was very informative and helpful, as are the others.
I've designed dozens of "Free" sites, and one barter site, and this one was my first paying one.
So I have a lot to learn from those with tons of experience like ddesign.
Cameron
