In contending for a new job, YOUR advice is needed

professional business protocol, the "Pay?" question

[The_Hat]

So awhile back (about a month ago) I saw an add in the classifieds for a job opening. (questions in a minute, let me give you the back-story) I called the number in the add. A fella answered and asked if I had experience and to send him some links if I did. I did, and so I did. Next week I called him again asking if he had any questions about the links and info I sent him. Well he had supposedly accidentally deleted some of his emails and could I send him the email again. Sure, no problem. Contacted him again the next week. This time it was "well we are so busy we haven’t really got a chance to look at your stuff, and could you send another email to remind me?" Umm yeah, sure, no problem. After another week it was "well my associates and I need to talk about things call me back in a couple days" All of this with me knowing basically nothing about salary, benefits, hours and the like. Do not get me wrong this job sounds like it would be the appropriate evolutionary step in my little career. The last time I tried to get a hold of him I got his fax machine and so I tried back more then a couple times over my lunch break (getting a little frustrated by this time) Later that day after I had eaten dinner and was watching the news the phone rang. For the first time he had called me. He told me that he has seen my stuff and he is impressed and to please bear with them.
Now the questions. The job is a tella commute job and I am curious as to how things are generally done. I certainly won't have a time clock to punch into and so I am curious as to how it is handled. Also since he did call me, after business hours no less, should I take that as the turning of the table and so appropriate to now ask some questions of my own (salary, benefits and such). Or for that matter should I take the difficulty getting in communication with him as a systemic professionalism problem and let it drop? (Don't really want to do that, the job would be nice to have. I am currently working outside of my interests) I am open to any thoughts you all may have; I want to do this right and not screw up a potentially great opportunity. Thanks in advance!

(Mods if you believe a more appropriate audience can be found elsewhere please feel free to move)

[divaone]

hi there,

my number one tidbit would be to remember that there is not only potential for them hiring you, but that the same potential is there for you hiring THEM. you must be comfortable with everything you get from their side - vibes, salary offer, hours, job description, etc. - and decide on if you really want to accept them as an employer. we do this with clients. they enter feeling as though they are hiring us, and thats fine. but we have had to fire a couple of clients in the past for various reasons.

also, ask directly what they offer and ask directly for what you want :)

hth

[chicagohh]

As a general rule you can (and should) ask for a salary range after your first interview (formal or informal). You are basically at that point.

Don't ask about benefits or anything else at this point. Wait until an offer is made before going down that path.

[Travoli]

>should I take the difficulty getting in communication with him as a systemic professionalism problem and let it drop?

IMHO Yes. Working remotely with someone that does not communicate well / needs things over and over could potentially drive you insane.

[martinibuster]

If they want to hire you as an independent contractor make sure you have a bullet proof contract that covers the frequency of when you get paid, how much you get paid, overtime provisions, a list of your job responsibilities (so you don't get saddled doing less or more than you thought), etc.

[Shane]

Ask them about their business plan. What else do they do? Why are they doing this?

It smells to me like this is a sideline or part-time start up for them which may spell trouble. Ask what happens if they don't get content to you in time or if they delay decisions. Do you still get paid for time spinning your wheels? (Put it more diplomatically though :) )

It might work if you can have other clients to fill in the gaps and they aren't too tight on timeframes. If your expectations are a 40 hour work week, it may not work.

Best of Luck,
Shane

[DaScribbler]

I learned this lesson the hard way in a situation very similar to what you are facing.

As mentioned, it sounds like you're dealing with a few people with an idea forming in their head, but are looking for somebody else to brunt the work for their upstart business. Which usually results in you doing all the work, they make money, and pay you a small portion.

Be prepared to tell them what YOU expect. Have a written contract or stipulation ready, stating that all design, code, and files are Your property until payment has been rendered. And be very clear on what your services cost, leave room for negotiation if you wish, but arrive at a concrete agreement.

Also, dictate your terms on deadlines. There's nothing worse than a client approaching you with a timeline, then suddenly trying to get you to finish it in half or a quarter of the time. Established deadlines are important, after all, you may be working on a few different projects simultaneously, so you need to budget time wisely.

Stay away from "We'll make you a partner and you'll collect a share of our profits" or "We can't pay you now, but once the business takes off, we'll pay you then" offers.

One final note, since they seem to be dragging their feet, tactfully communicate to them that you are willing to do the work, but you are running your own business and don't have time to sit around waiting. When they are ready to talk turkey they can contact you. Also point out that you can't guarantee availability if they wait too long (gives em a kick in the shorts to move their feet.)

[jpalmer]

Gidday folks,

Lemme get this straight ...

*they* ran the advert, then said they were too busy ... then "lost" your correspondence ... then called you back after hours ... then ...

Sounds like they need a sysadmin seargent major to me!

Personally, I wouldn't touch it with a 40' barge pole, but it's your life!

AND ... I'd call up all the clients I gave them as referrals, just to "touch base", if you know what I mean. ;-)

[shasan]

jpalmer could be right, OTOH I've worked in offices where the culture is just like that, they focus on whatever's top-of-mind that day and emails get buried and less-important appointments post-poned. I wouldn't take the communication thing as a huge problem.