Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
In reply to a question from Brett Tabke, Matt said that there wasn't a sandbox, but the algorithm might affect some sites, under some circumstances, in a way that a webmaster would perceive as being sandboxed.
So, for some sites, in effect there IS a sandbox.
This is my take on his comments as well.
Those of us that have created sites that got sandboxed (I have one that stayed in the sandbox for 18 months) should look at those sites and decide what it is about them that Google doesn't like.
A friend of mine: "I was wondering why the sites of my customers didn't appear until I used adwords, then they suddenly ranked"
Yeah sure Google will like it. ;) And Yahoo etc etc any company would like it.. There is nothing wrong with trying to make a dollar or a billion, giving obvious holy lines :\ that's what I have a problem with ..
And that they didn't know about such a large scale effect of their algorithm is another point .. it's scary if above statement is true ... ;)
Why ask Matt Cutts any question?
You must be joking - these people are Matt's groupies!
When he speaks an eerie silence falls over the room like E.F. Hutton was there!
After he gives a talk people herd around him like lepers chasing a messiah and at one point so many people clustered around Matt I think they started to form their own gravity as innocent passers by ended up in a elliptical orbit around the pack until they could no longer resist it's pull and got stuck on the outer rings.
I jokingly suggested to Matt at the end of the day that he has so many followers that he should start his own cult since they were already drinking the koolaid ;)
If you can do that you'll benefit. But if all you can do is complain that Google is broken and doesn't deliver fresh results, then you're just waisting time.
Why not speak once mind as G is speaking their mind with their code and try to live with the realities of today. That way Google knows about what is wrong [ergo get feedback] and you individually in paralell try to deal what's up with G today you have both sides covered. In end effect getting complaints tells you what is wrong with your company. Google business is indeed complex and doing such an algorithm is certainly difficult. On the other hand they have a shootload of money and the resources to try to fix it. We are talking about G here as a company and not about individuals. :) At least I do.
But I appreciate what you try to say. :)
"We can't get into the keyword <whine> we must be sandboxed <whine> as there is no other reason."
Riiiiiiiight.
The sandbox is a term webmasters use when their site (which OBVIOUSLY deserves the No1 position)is nowhere to be seen in the google index.[quote]
Perhaps their tactics "OBVIOUSLY" would rank number one a few years ago. Perhaps even sites created a few years ago are using those tactics and successfully ranking highly. This does not mean that these new sites are seen to "deserve" a top spot by GOOG; right or wrong.
Among other things, just like in life, there are different rules for people of different ages (see no drinking in US till 21). There are ways to bend (break) the rules (fake ID) but generally these methods cause harm.
As far as the Sandbox goes, there are many methods by which webmasters and SEO's are getting top rankings for competitive terms with sites created (registered) in 2005. There is not one simple methodology thus there is obviously a scale of factors with different weighting that when mixed and matched can result in a site ranking highly with no more than a few months delay.
I wouldn't call that a sandbox, that's just tough cookies.
Per Matt's discussion, what's perceived as a 'sandbox' is more Google trying to prevent spam sites so a better descriptive word would be a "Spambox".
For the most part notably missing are P.P.C. and there are very few travel. Most likely these are just too hyper-competitive for top rankings in this short amount of time without raising a flag.
aka site:www.ignoredbygoggle.com
brings up 0 hits :) every submission etc gets ignored UNTIL UNTIL you buy adwords.. ;)
I don't mean not ranking while being in G's index.
Sandbox is for me not getting spidered by G at all.
Jeez, buy a link already. ;-)
The Sandbox is dead we have a tarpit now .. ;)
What I don't understand is why Google don't just come clean. We all know that it exists so what's the point in continuing to deny it?
Maybe Google is a company made for profit? And maybe they're not supposed to be telling us these kinds of things?
Maybe, just maybe, google tells you just enough so you tell them even more?
Or I could be wrong, Google is here to help SEO.
I wouldn't call that a sandbox, that's just tough cookies.
Sandbox is to Tough Cookies as Intelligent Design is to Darwinism.
If 10,000 web sites are all competing in the same space, who says your site should rank anymore than any of the others?
I wouldn't call that a sandbox, that's just tough cookies.
Yawn .... there still here, suggesting that guys like me don't know their sandbox from their elbow.
Gimme a break will you!
Bill , I have often read with interest the stuff you write. Don't spoil it. I know what the sandbox is, please don't insult me. I can do a search for Web design country and I am in the number two position. Guess what? I am up against many thousands of web designers, not just a few chancers, so I must have at least a clue about what I am doing. No?
The sandbox is real!
Edit: written after half a dozen pints of Guinness :)
He seemed more than willing to not answer questions when necessary.
I can do a search for Web design country and I am in the number two position.
Are you serious? I'm certainly not knocking your abilities, just your chosen example. Surely you must have a better example than that to give.
How many people come to your web site searching for 'web design country'? Overture shows 36 total searches...
One of the ways you find a bug is you test for all the design recommendations recommended by Google. The bug should not be invoked.
This would suggest that if you follow all Googles web design guide (if there is such a thing) to the letter, that you should not be affected by the bug.
Is this too simplistic? Probably, but I think I will go and try to find Google "Website Design Recommendations" now...
and Guinness is Good For You.
Google naturally wants to meet market expectations and keep share holders happy. An increase in ADWORDS revenue will help Google do just that.
Webmasters that are anxious to get their new website noticed that's in a sandbox will be more inclined to do so via Adwords.
It's a solid and very smart business move by the smart people at google.
Abviously this is just speculation on my part, but I wouldn't be surprise that if the data was available to the public, you would see an increase in Google adwords revenue since this sandbox surfaced.
The reality is that it's becoming increasing difficult to get on the free train - most of us have to pay to play. Google is in business to make money and simply making smart business decisions.
Just my 2 cents...
I've ran into the "sandbox effect" a few times. And I have read what the experts say about it here. So I know it's real.
But I've also had a couple of sites that avoided it. Both ranked adequately on Google within a month. One site had about 10 pages and the other had about 8500. Each came up in the top 10 for the queries I wanted within a month. So I am confident that the "sandbox effect" can be avoided.
Both of my sites that avoided it had:
1) Domains that had never been registered before and had not been parked or left unattended with "under construction pages"
2) Unique IP addresses
3) Completely unique content
4) Started with a single page of content, with more content added nearly every day until they ranked.
5) Over 200 words of paragraph text on the home page
6) One link from my company's website (PR5)
7) One link from another client's website (PR6)
8) A $299 submission in the Yahoo directory
9) Validated html and css
10) A robots.txt file
11) No other registrations on any other cheap directories or any other inbound links until after they ranked.
12) Both sites were simple static html
13) I had several employees visit each site nearly everyday from computers with the Google Toolbar installed, from multiple states
14) The small site used AdWords, the big site did not
I don't know if any of the aboved caused the "sandbox detour" or if I just got lucky because they had the "sandbox server" down for repairs those days. ;-) But I do know I missed it twice and I hope to miss it again in the future.
The big site has a broader appeal and goes after thousands of keyword phrases. Within a month it was getting 400 to 900 referrals each day.
I haven't beaten the sandbox yet, but I have had some success shortening it. The list posted a few posts back is a very good guide from my experience. Number 4 being the best clue to why and how it works.
