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In reply to a question from Brett Tabke, Matt said that there wasn't a sandbox, but the algorithm might affect some sites, under some circumstances, in a way that a webmaster would perceive as being sandboxed.
So, for some sites, in effect there IS a sandbox.
We know from experience that many sites come out of the box after a quarantine period when nothing changes apart from their age.
And if Google representative says AGAIN there is no Sandbox, don't you think you should start looking into the other direction?
That quote above could be an excellent starting point.
So, if you (just for the fun, of course) begin with the "No Sandbox" theorem, what could be the possible answer(s) for the effect observed?
- Something on the page started getting its points, due to age or some other value
- Something off page started getting its points, due to age or some other value
- New addition of some off page elements
- ...Anything else you can think of in that direction
Nope the sites I'm talking about are not ours but clients and that was already a consideration, we only ever register domains in the clients name (it would be wrong to anything else anyway). And the hosting has varied, on different IP ranges and with different hosting companies, we use three different companies for hosting and some were hosted elsewhere with the clients own hosting, so I don't see how Google could find a connection.
The overriding common factor is that all sites were in extremely commercial areas, however they were legitimate sites for legitimate businesses, not scrapers, affiliate sites or any junk of that nature.
The idea that non optimised sites will avoid the sandbox is a joke! If you don't optimise a new site you'll get little in way of rank in most cases, if you do optimise you'll get sandboxed, that's the noise I'm hearing coming from some people here, that would suggest this is a catch 22 for many sites and the only solution is waiting for however months Google deems is necessary before the site will rank properly.
If you look at past quotes from Google I'd suggest that they are playing with us a little, it doesn't help that name 'sandbox' isn't entirely accurate and I think this is where a lot of the confusion starts.. In truth I suppose it is:
1) A penalty that new sites (especially commercial ones) seem to trip easily, pushing your site way down the SERPS
2) The same harsh penalty clearly isn't being applied to older, established sites given all other things are equal.
3) After a certain amount of time (several months) the penalty is removed.
4) What other factors may be causing the penalty I'm unsure of but commercial site + new site are the first two factors for sure.
So something exists that is treating new sites in a different way to existing sites, call it what you like.
Maybe someone should ask Matt something like 'is there a penalty applied to new sites that isn't applied to established sites in the same way' rather than 'does the sandbox exists' less room manoeuvring then I guess...
1 No Referrer 5,296
2 [google.co.uk...] 3,103
3 [google.com...] 1,580
4 #*$!xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 901
5 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 714
6 [search.msn.co.uk...] 336
7 [google.com.au...] 120
8 [google.ca...] 83
9 [aolsearch.aol.co.uk...] 79
11 [google.nl...] 76
12 [google.fr...] 66
13 [google.se...] 57
14 [google.de...] 53
15 [google.it...] 44
16 [search.msn.com...] 40
brand new domain ... xxxxxxxxx are sites that you will need to find imo
This was on the first post, I don't know if it's an accurate quote from Matt, I assume it is....
[edited by: tedster at 5:51 am (utc) on Nov. 25, 2005]
[edit reason] remove off topic [/edit]
it's ecommerce site selling the market leading products for this christmas
2) Is it entirely by accident or do you know exactly how to avoid being 'sandboxed' and can repeat anytime with any site?
70% of the time I can get straight out , pharm and casino you can only spam to get out, so it's a shotgun approach 100 sites to get one in
3) Can you reveal some of the terms you are ranking well for?
dude.. i will say i'm playing in the 2,000,000 area serps
It's OK Dave - people don't listen or pay attention, no matter what. BTW, I've read that particular patent through several times and posted my heart out about it. So what - same ole penalty song plays anyway. But thanks for letting me know, now I know I'm not a total kook imagining things. :)
>>My gran died so I feel like sharing.. tommorrow will be another day
Sorry about that Dave, thoughts and prayers are with you and yours.
My impression was when talking about Google and rank, you can correct me if I'm wrong that a penalty is applied for being naughty as you say... and is applied manually. Any other extreme negative impact on a sites rank is caused by automated filtering triggered by any number of things, it's built into the ALGO to conclude? Matt seems to be saying that the sandbox effect is built into the ALGO, I wonder if once applied the 'sentence' is permamnent and can't be reversed, in other words the only other thing left to do is wait..
The thinking goes: my site has been put in a "sandbox" therefore I must have committed an "infraction" because I have been given a "penalty" so therefore I must change whatever "wrong thing" I may have done. (e.g. "over-optimisation" discussions)
energylevel, words and the way that you use them are important. If you think of sandboxes and penalties you think in a certain way.
If you think in terms of algorithms, you think of your site not having enough of whatever may be attractive to a search engine at that time. Do you refer to your site being in the "linkbox" if you have no links to it or in the "titlebox" if you are using "Untitled Document"?
Don't forget these forums are for all, of all levels of knowledge, people come her learn and to discuss and express opinions right or wrong! One of the most annoying things I see time and time again is people assuming they know more and peple who do know more than others, often retorting with condescending, mocking remarks, people are looking for answers here not insults...
Anyway, that is interesting. I read somewhere Steveb wrote in the supporters forum - Signals of quality will get you into the sandbox and it actually has to be Signals of Volume. Hope I haven't mis-interpreted you Steve. Thinking of it, these two trains of thought are at cross roads.
Anyway, I will desist from drawing inferences. I for one haven't been successful in beating the sandbox, atleast in Commercial area.
Is this saying the good ole boys are being taken care of and most new folk trying to get established are
not allowed into the game? If so, Google has restricted participation by favoring
certain types/age of web sites and shunting others to their graveyard. However, there is nothing that can be done about Google's practices. We are all servants.