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Site gone supplemetal?

Caused by duplicate content or cononical?

   
11:01 am on Nov 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My well ranked, six year old site went "supplemental" in September.

How can I determine if the cause is canonical or duplicate content?

I really don't know what to do :(

5:08 pm on Nov 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



> duplicate

Is the orginal page site ranked?

5:42 pm on Nov 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yikes, been dealing with this problem for over a year now (very slowly improving); took a nose-dive on Sept 22, also now big improvement from that.

Here's how to check:

site:mysite.tld -www

(assumes your canonical page is

www.mysite.tld
) If you see any results, then you have both a canonical page and duplicate content problem. A 301 rewrite mysite.com => www.mysite.com will gradually fix both.
6:39 pm on Nov 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thank Alex,

I did the 301 redirect non-www to www thingy about a month ago and have been watching the non-www pages swapping to the www versions in the index which is of passing interest.

What I do not see changing is the /index.html listed as supplemental.

So I have redirected the .com/index.html to .com/ in in the hopes that maybe ...just maybe this will rid the index of the suplemental /index.html and perhaps...just perhaps, allow the site to rank again for its content.

Right now it does not rank for anything, not even the most obscure terms mentioned on its pages.

I have no idea if I should just abandon this site, as it is completely dead traffic wise(since Sept 22nd)...

Sticky me anyone who wants to know what the site is.

Cheers.

8:48 pm on Nov 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



An extra to maybe try is Google Sitemaps (no need to create an actual Sitemap) (
https://www.google.com/webmasters/sitemaps/login
).

That site will give reports from G on your site. Particularly useful are Stats ( Query stats Crawl stats Page analysis Index stats) and Errors tabs ( HTTP errors Unreachable URLs URLs restricted by robots.txt URLs not followed URLs timed out).

Well worth while, and does not take too much time or effort.

PS

My rewrite was put in place in Feb, and many, many pages have still not yet got their correct canonical designation - massive numbers of supplementals + URL-only. As I said, it is slowly getting better.

9:14 pm on Nov 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



site:mysite.tld -www

What does this translate to exactly?

I just tried it for one of my sites and got 2 pages, both listed as supplemental results. 1 of them is a Flash file(!?)

Is there a definitive, tried and tested 301 code I can use to redirect all non-www to www?

11:20 pm on Nov 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member annej is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



site:mysite.tld -www for my small site gives me one non www page even though the redirect has been in place for months. is there any way to get Google to get that one right?

The redirect did take care of the problem other than that.

3:27 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Sorry for this probably dumb question but in this example (site:mysite.tld -www) exactly how do you replace your web site URL in it? Do you use the www or the .com for your web site?
This is what I tried and came up with nothing listed
site:forget-me-notgiftbaskets.tld -www
Is that right? And is the space supposed to be there after the tld?

Thanks,
Carol

3:55 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



site:yahoo.com -www
3:58 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Change tld to com
4:30 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks, that worked. I have 100 pages listed that are without the www.
:-(
Carol
5:27 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't think that the supplimental message means that its a duplicate content issue, this is one of the reasons, but from other examples that I have seen, it's been where a page is no longer linked from any other page within the website, and G is slowly removing the page from its' index.

I had a similar problem with mod rewrite last year, it took me three months to get the site ranking in G again after the mod rewrite - in this occasion I think it was due to the sudden increase in pages been indexed by G

6:51 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I agree 100%, all the suplementals for my sites are for pages long since deleted
8:18 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Brett,

"> duplicate - Is the orginal page site ranked? "

I am not sure what you mean by this. My "original content" site has had snippets stolen which now appear on other sites all over the web. Nothing new there.

My site (the original) does not rank for anything, so I guess the answer to your question is No.

9:00 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I started a new site and from the second the site was online and the domain registered there was a 301 from www to no www. My site showed up in google a few days later under www.example.com but no example.com

?

9:20 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Steveb
site:yahoo.com -www

Google shows 108,000,000
lol

9:46 am on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



For Yahoo it would be correct to do:-

site:yahoo.com -www -personals -quote -finance -uk -movies etc etc

and I cant be bothered to find all the subdomains to see if Google have yahoo.com pages listed.

However on a simpler site, some internal page listed in a site:domain.com -www is not as bad as the homepage being listed.

What seems to happen is that Google can get confused as to picking the root url - so duplicate homepage listed on the non-www versus the www is where the problem really seems to stem.

12:26 pm on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't think that the supplimental message means that its a duplicate content issue, this is one of the reasons, but from other examples that I have seen, it's been where a page is no longer linked from any other page within the website, and G is slowly removing the page from its' index.

Not true. The 1 page I've got as supplemental is definitely part of the site. But the other one (Flash file) is indeed an old version that is no longer used.

1:48 pm on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



grandmac:
in this example (site:mysite.tld -www) exactly how do you replace your web site URL in it? ... is the space supposed to be there after the tld?

.tld
stands for "Top-Level-Domain" (.com, .co.uk, whatever). And yes, there is a space there. I guess, to make it totally generic, if your home page--the Canonical page for your site--is supposed to be:
subdomain.domain.tld
then the search command is:
site:domain.tld -subdomain
So, for WebmasterWorld, this translates as "
site:webmasterworld.com -www
".

If you then find any results, these are duplicates and, as Dayo_UK (the world expert on this!) says, if you find your Home page listed, then your entire site is wrongly listed by G. Bad, bad, bad.

You understand that, as soon as G finds pages that it considers to be duplicates of each other, it chooses one as the "canonical"--which it puts in the main index--and puts all others into the Supplemental index. If your Home page is duplicated, and G has chosen the 'wrong' version (how does it know which to choose?), then your entire site may be in the Supplemental index - down in the brown and smelly.

One extra to watch out for is the translation of "index.html" pages:

subdomain.domain.tld/ 
subdomain.domain.tld/index.html
If *both* the above are legal on your site, there will be duplicates. Your site needs a 301 from one to the other (whichever you choose).

Finally, 302s from other sites can lead to them being chosen as the Canonical site. Yikes! And still not fully fixed by G.

2:03 pm on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks AlexK for that clarification. Very helpful.

How do I redirect /index.htm page to www.mydomain.com/? I tried the standard way and got a loopback.

2:53 pm on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Use the Apache forum [webmasterworld.com] (they are v good there) (my tidy mind, sorry).
7:39 pm on Nov 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member




I am not sure what you mean by this. My "original content" site has had snippets stolen which now appear on other sites all over the web. Nothing new there.

this could be the reason for your site's demise. You need to track down everyone who copied your content and write the host, supplying them with proof of your being the original author. You may have to send in a DMCA report but often they will either remove the content or the whole website.

Your site may not recuperate till they are all removed.

Searc for "stop stolen content" for instructions.