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Gone from PR5 to Pr0

Backward links al gone?



11:33 am on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I had over 200 backward links and a PR5 for the past year or so.
Today I checked the site and it has a PR0 for all pages and have NO backward links.

It cannot be good thats for sure!

What does this mean and how can I get it back? Any suggestions would be welcomed


1:36 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

This probably will not make you feel any better, but the same thing happened to me 12 months ago. I suddenly lost all my PR and all back links. This happened not just to one site, but to all 20 sites I run. Since then my sites have disappeared into the supplemental index and I have never received a single visitor from Google ever again.


1:43 pm on Oct 28, 2005 (gmt 0)

looks manual. Take another look at the site, clean up if it needs to, and apply for a reinclusion


8:31 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Have you heard of sites getting back in after being kicked out?
I talked to someone who said its better to start from scratch and leaving it alone, what do you think?

Its the one million dollar question but how will I know what to change to get back in?

After you apply to be reincluded, how long roughly to get back in.

AARGGHH! what a nightmare


9:37 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I submitted a reinclusion once and the site was back in in about 6 weeks. Just like nothing ever happened?

I don't know why it was penalized but I went through it and cleaned up the code a bit and made the site look more professional and submitted it.

The site did real good for 2 more months and then got penalized again? So I resubmitted the reinclusion and still waiting for 3 months now.

There must be some code on the site somewhere that google don't like?


9:47 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member


Irrespective of you filing a reinclusion request it could have been pure coincidence that your site fluctuated in and out of Googles index.

Filing a reincusion request is a waste of time. I have never read anywhere on this forum any credible evidence of any web site being successfully reincluded through filing a reinclusion request.


9:51 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Where can you ask for reinclusion?


9:58 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

In fact I will go one step further and say that a “re-inclusion request” is like an urban myth. There's not even a proper form to make a “re-inclusion request” with.

A long time ago Googleguy (AKA Matt Cutts) told us to use: [google.com...]

However, using that form gets you nowhere. Normally you just get some automated response, or if you’re lucky some unintelligent response from some intern denying there is a problem with your web site.


10:35 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

This is what GoogleGuy posted here.

"howiejs, the addurl form is not the same. Start at google.com/support . We recently revamped our support infrastructure to start more with web forms than with emails. I think the url you want is [google.com...]
and then put "Reinclusion request" in the subject line. Tell your site's name and describe any circumstances that you think might have led to a spam penalty, and why they no longer apply. crobb305, I would follow this procedure too.
arubicus, I know that we've been bringing new tools online to trace spam. joeduck, in general I'd say that using one domain rather than many is a good idea, all other things being equal. There's less chances for mix-ups that way."

This is what Matt Cutts said in his blog.

"First off, what’s a reinclusion request and why would you want to do one? If you’ve been experimenting with SEO, or you employ as SEO company that might be doing things outside Google’s guidelines, and your site has taken a precipitous drop recently, you may have a spam penalty. A reinclusion request asks Google to remove any potential spam penalty.

The first step is to take a long, hard look at your website. Is there hidden text, hidden links, or cloaking on your site, especially on the front page? Are there doorway pages that do a JavaScript or some other redirect to a different page? Were you trying to use some automated program to get links or scrape Google? Whatever you find that you think may have been against Google’s guidelines, correct or remove those pages.

Now where should you send a reinclusion request? This has changed in the last few months from an email address to a web form. The best location to go is [google.com...] . You can select “I’m a webmaster inquiring about my website” and then select “Why my site disappeared from the search results or dropped in ranking.” Click Continue, and on the page that shows up, make sure to type “Reinclusion Request” in the Subject: line of the resulting form. Upper- or lower-case doesn’t matter, but make sure you use the words “reinclusion request” in the subject line so it gets routed to the right place.

Now we come to the heart of things: what goes into a reinclusion request. Fundamentally, Google wants to know two things: 1) that any spam on the site is gone or fixed, and 2) that it’s not going to happen again. I’d recommend giving a short explanation of what happened from your perspective: what actions may have led to any penalties and any corrective action that you’ve taken to prevent any spam in the future. If you employed an SEO company, it indicates good faith if you tell us specifics about the SEO firm and what they did–it assists us in evaluating reinclusion requests. Note that SEO and mostly-affiliate sites may need to provide more evidence of good faith before a site will be reincluded; such sites should be quite familiar with Google’s quality guidelines.

Okay, so you found the hidden text that your webmaster put on your front page, you removed it, and you sent your reinclusion request off to Google. How long do you have to wait now? That depends on when Google reviews the request and on the type of spam penalty you have. In the days of monthly index updates it could take 6-8 weeks for a site to be reincluded after a site was approved, and the severest spam penalties can take that long to clear out after an approval. For less severe stuff like hidden text, it may only take 2-3 weeks, depending on when someone looks at the request and if the request is approved."


10:55 am on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

*.. giving a short explanation of what happened..*

I'd love to read those, sounds like a good idea for a competition ;-)


12:46 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I have a site that I started developing in April of this year. After being very patient, it never appeared in the Google search database despite doing very well on MSN and Yahoo.

So, three weeks ago, I enquired through the Google online form as to why my site hasn't appeared in Google. At first I got the standard automated response email saying this ...

Thank you for your note. This is an automated reply to your inquiry about your site's inclusion in the Google search results. We're always working hard to provide comprehensive online assistance, and you'll likely find an answer to your question at the following links:

Well, I replied to that email saying that I had sort help from other sources including the Google Newsgroups about my site's non-appearance in the Google search database. Then a few days later, I was surprise to receive a reply from help@google.com saying that my site had been banned and that they couldn't tell me exactly why, but gave me general reasons why sites would normally be banned, and pretty much said my site didn't meet the quality guidelines.

I then replied back saying to them that there must have been a genuine mistake and I more or less spat the dummy and thought I'd never hear from Google help again.

Well, to my complete surprise, a week later I got another email reply from help@google.com saying that they understood my concerns and a Google engineer will then check my site out. A few days later, I checked my web site logs and someone from Google did indeed visit my website (it wasn't Googlebot, but someone from *.google.com).

And finally as of three days ago, my site now appears in the Google search database after 6 long months in the cyberwilderness. And I now see Googlebot indexing my homepgae at least twice a day, which it never did in the 6 months prior to this.

So, to answer the question above whether a reinclusion request works or not, the answer is YES it does. How long did it take? Just on three weeks from when I submitted my initial request.

But I still don't know why my site was banned in the first place since it is 10000% clean. ..it might just have been poorly designed, but then again, it does pass validation to XHTML 1.0 Transitional standards. (whatever that means! ;) )


12:57 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

I had a successful reinclusion request for a site belonging to a client which had been a little over enthusiastically optimized. It was completely gone from Google, gray toolbar, no listing for the site at all. I cleaned the site up completely, deleted a gazillion pieces of hidden text, loads of doorway pages, rewrote content so that a human could actually read it without breaking into tears and applied for reinclusion.

In the request I explained in detail what had happened, that the owner of the site had trusted an 'expert' and was unaware of what was being done and detailed the changes that had been made. I only got a standard reply, but about a week later there was a visit from google.com, and then googlebot returned and the site was back.

My advice is maximum cleaning up, make it cleaner than clean, whiter than white and have a good clear reason why it was penalised in the first place, there must be a reason.


5:50 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member

abbeyvet, I like your reply -- just what I was wanting to hear from someone. I believe there a bunch of people too skeptical and overly upset with google because of their personal experiences, but they should realize that there are many things they can do to get back on track and into good standings with google if they make the effort.


7:00 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

This proposition sound OK but what if you are not aware of any changes to you site that have taken place recently? It is OK to say " Go cap in hand to Google and grovel for forgiveness" But what if this is the second time you whiter than white site have just disappeared from the radar?

On both occassions a page one site on a single issue with no black hat stuff just gets burned?

Is it also a co-incidence that Adsense term that have run profitably for three years with 3-5% conversion rates suddenly get suspended with messages saying " Improve your performance or increase your bid" Hang on, I have lots of worse performing terms that aren't suspended! Just read, "That one works, so pay more for it"

I for one am not going to spend any money on returning to Google page one or the Adsense pig trough.

Wake up and stop trying to please this bunch of sharks and find other sources of businees.


7:07 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member


This happened not just to one site, but to all 20 sites I run. Since then my sites have disappeared into the supplemental index and I have never received a single visitor from Google ever again.

Do you by any chance have site-wide links on all 20 sites to all your other sites? If so this could be the reason for the ban.


8:45 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

Where can you ask for reinclusion?

If your PR has really gone you have probably gone too far and banned for good… who knows because sadly it would be your fault.

For those people who still have PR but "fell out" follow the post by JudgeJeffries. The time taken to show back in the SERP may take longer than in the last update! (its upto Google).


9:20 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Now I really am in disgrace. I have just checked hundreds of pages on my 7 sites - all PR0. My wife asked me to check her site - It is in finnish and I don't understand it or go near it normally. Every single page except 1 is at least PR2. The page that is pr0 was put up 10 days ago and has two sentences on it introducing a new staff member. No-one has ever looked at this site from an SEO point of view.
What are the differences between my sites, and hers.
1. She uses dream-weaver built pages that introduce her products and services - I use dreamweaver templates to provide info pages about my niches, with content fed from a database.
2. She has no adsense - I have 3 blocks per page.
3. Many of her pages link to a X-Cart shopping cart - I don't have a shopping cart.
4. All sites have pages that change daily - mine through rss newsfeeds, and hers through manual updates.
5. Her site has existed for 5 years, although completely rebuilt since February, my sites are from May to July this year. - I think this may be important.
6. My sites all sell affiliate products and none of my own products, she does not sell affiliate products, only her own products. I have no duplicate affiliate content on my sites however, except for jpg files.

I'm almost tempted to think that the way to get google traffic is to sell your own products and regularly update your pages manually - but I'd love to know both why google has decided this, and how the hell they figure out if this is your business model!

Maybe at the end of this jagger update, things will miraculously return to the way they were, but google has not sent any of my sites traffic since 18/10/05, but the PR bar is not grey, just 0/10.

I even applied for a real job last week, just in case this continues. (My wife offered me a job as well, which is even worse!)

I can still afford a beer now and again, so things could be worse - and there is a lesson here - diversify so that one SE feeding you traffic which you can convert well is not the foundation for your business model - only for one of your income streams.


10:01 pm on Oct 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

PR has NOTHING to do with content.

It is a ranking of inbound links and their relative power.


3:43 am on Oct 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

i'm sorry, but looks like some of you here go out of the main question.

I had over 200 backward links and a PR5 for the past year or so.
Today I checked the site and it has a PR0 for all pages and have NO backward links.

As i understand , site isn't banned (site:domain.com still have results) and gbot still his site.

the same situation is here:

PR6 site dropped to PR 0

1. site:domain.com 113k results (a lot of suppl results or only url listings)
2. link:domain.com ~300 results (in yahoo: 110 000)
3. g still visit check, but don't do any deep crawl

4. site have 4 links from dmoz (google dir and yahoo)
6. haven't any 302 redirects (only 301)

so what is this?

if this is penalty or any filter, why PR drop?
i agree with this, "PR has NOTHING to do with content."

so what's this?


3:47 am on Oct 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

>> PR6 site dropped to PR 0

I think it's a manual penalty. Not sure what it does, but I guess it isn't good. For example, a few directories who got Pr8 in 2-3 months got pr0-ed. They still have pages in Google, some pages still get indexed, and some inside pages have PR. Only google knows what that penalty really does


4:08 am on Oct 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member annej is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

The only time I had everything go supplimental was when my small site was 302 hijacked. Hopefully Jaggar 3 will take care of this sort of thing.


4:27 am on Oct 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

How about this little weirdie:

PR5, yet nothing comes up using link:mysite.com.

wooooo ;)


5:12 am on Oct 30, 2005 (gmt 0)

3 Months ago my site got hit for the first time ... PR0 from PR5 out of the blue. 3000 visitors per day down to 300 ... totally devastating!

2 weeks ago my PR5 came back and instantly got my visitor numbers back as before. The sceptic in me knew that it couldn't last and 2 nights ago I dropped again. I had completely redesigned the site, carefully building pages and using the old file names, so to not confuse the spiders when they finally came back. It is an honest site with hard graft content and of good local value. It is now nowhere to be seen on the Google listings.

I'm wondering whether the recent spate of 'Ad Scammers' are deliberately buying links in my name and getting Google to ban me. Does anyone know how to prove if this is going on or not.

As for reinclusion, I've tried applying and think it is a waste of time ... but it gives you something to pin your hopes on.


9:10 am on Nov 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

As i stated at the beginning:

I had over 200 backward links and a PR5 for the past year or so. Today I checked the site and it has a PR0 for all pages and have NO backward links.

site:mydomain.co.uk and links:mydomain.co.uk gives no results now.

Each page on this site has a link back to my webdesign site, should I get rid of these?

The site has about 150 pages, the main look of the site is the same except for the text in the middle, even then the text is quite similar.

Is it worth me spending time on this site or should I start again?


5:35 pm on Nov 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

They same thing happened to me recently. I have achieved some "crawl back" but certianly nothing like where I was.

First thing I noticed was link:www.widgets.com showed zero backlinks. However, link:www.widgets.com/index.html showed normal (or normal in Google terms which is a lot less than actual) backlinks.

Most of the links were long standing and were all of the type "http://www.widgets.com/" so it wasn't that my inbounds were explicitly to my index page.

I initiated a long - and often one sided - email corresspondence with Google. Whether that helped or not I dunno, but a week or so ago some of the backlinks returned (no return of PR but that will (hopefully?) come in the next update).

Since the problem first occurred I tried to fix problems relating to content theft (including deleting some pages) as well as removing a no longer used sub-domain.

So to make it short, like you I have no idea if I can rehabilitate the site, I just have seen some signs I might be crawling back to where I was.


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