Forum Moderators: Robert Charlton & goodroi
No, that is zero sum game. The most useless posts here are from people saying the serps on some datacenter suck or are good because their own stuff ranks bad or good on that datacenter. Not only does nobody else care, there is someone thinking the exact opposite due to how their stuff is ranking.
In any case (repeating mantra from past several updates), a lot folks should consider that screw ups are not deliberate policies. Google has been a technical mess for more than a year now, just over two years really. Allegra was just a blip of an update, but was a huge technical disaster. Google also has a horrible time figuring out canonical pages, particularly when webmasters deliberately do inconsistent things.
This update seems to me to be another minor bit of shuffling, with the added "bonus" of a lot of anomalies, most caused by lazy or uniformed webmastering (meaning if you have been reading webmasterworld and haven't had a 301 on for non-www and www since at least last summer, you only have yourself to blame).
I see almost no changes in my niches, except... a HUGE increase in straight redirect domains. This tactical trash gets discovered fairly quickly but apparently a new tactic has been discovered and needs to be squashed; authority sites performing same as recently; sites still in the sandbox dumped back to pre-Allegra levels, while sites that got out of the sandbox with Allegra doing a bit better.
The UK Serps at the moment has to be the worst ever.
That's the whole point.
*my* UK Serps are the best ever. On *all* my sites.
But I can only improve at others' expense. That's the rub.
But don't criticise Google when it re-ranks pages, it hasn't demoted *everyone*.
Far better to find out why it promoted the sites it did.
Why is this thread so negative? <smile>
DerekH
I'll do that as soon as I find one of MINE that it HAS promoted!
Another thing I'm noticing, is that when listing site:domain.com older, former top ranking pages have been relegated to the supplemental listings which only appear when you click on the "repeat the search with the omitted results included." Then they show up in clumps, interspersed with the other pages in no identifiable order. It's claiming these pages are "very similar" to the ones displayed, but in OUR case that couldn't be further from true. I wonder what they are considering these days to determine that they are "very similar". Keyword similarity/density? date? filename? That could be a major clue to what's going on.
>IMHO Google has a major problem since last Friday..<
Most of the points you mentioned in your post have also been noticed and discussed just after allegra (3rd Feb 2005) and to less extent around 23rd March 2005.
So the problem isn't new at all. And Google poor serps isn't new phenomenon at all. And Quality sites disappearance from the serps isn't a breaking news either.
I guess we all should accept the fact that Google is like this and its going to continue as such.
Without mentioning it, I guess many fellow members are thinking whether white hat SEO is the way to deal with Google in future.
I'm thinking of starting a new thread: How to Survive Google´s Updates
where we all discuss the measures which publishers should take in account to meet the challenges of those killing updates.
We have several friends who have not been affected by the updates and others whose sites returned back to their positions after being affected by an update. We need to take a look at those cases and try to learn of them.
Google isn't leaving publishers much choices other than finding new ways to survive keeping in mind that Google itself isn´t playing nice with publishers, IMHO. Accordingly Google has no right to require from publishers to play nice in future either.
Google is monopolizing how the internet should be used and we should try harder to stop that from happening, for instance "Publishers protest Google library project" ref: [msnbc.msn.com...] .
We need to start utilizing other search engine services to enable them compete with google effectively so that people will stop saying that 90% of my traffic or revenue has been affected by Google.
We are the ones to blame because we are all gambling on google while forgeting about other search engines like yahoo and msn that have been around for some time and are careful when making enormous changes.
NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE, JUST A THOUGHT!
Good for you that all your sites rank well. Not everyone is so lucky. Also, as i dont know what sector your sites are in, or how commercial they are, i cant know if being constantly top of your sector through all updates is any great achievement or not!.
As for seeing why a site may rank over another, frankly i genuinely believe that an age factor is included in the Algo. And age plays a great part in ranking over content at the moment imo.
Two nights ago UK, the serps were showing what i thought were quality results. Data centre 216.239.59.104 (which is still showing different results) was refering traffic. Our site was ranking ok, could have been better but OK all the same. Looking at the results objectionally i did think that they were very good. Some poor quality sites were removed or had fallen back and some new quality was also featuring, we had less duplication and less black hat sites were showing.
Then in the morning the results changed back. Sites older than ours but of less quality with less content were ranking higher. Two sites that cloak pages and re-direct to the homepage rank above us and under other search terms loads of older not relevent sites had higher positions.
As i said, im still waiting for the real update?, i genuinely can not currently see any improvement at this update so far - If anything the results are currently worse.
Now we are either stuck with these because the updates over, or we have a chance that google know the results are poor and are still working on it.
As i said, i dont have a problem being down the serps i just get anoyed when cr@p features above us - i dont believe that reverting to black hat and cloaking is the answer. Our site is quality with good content and we aim to keep it that way. Pitty Google doesnt reflect this in its current serps
In fact, one might suggest that they'd be poor businessmen if they weren't integrating their various businesses for maximum profitability. Seems like such a no-brainer to me.
If you have any theories, I'd like to hear them. To be honest, I'd love to hear something from Google other than the hollow response I received in response to a very specific question.
In essence, I challenged their ability to produce relevant results consistently, as opposed to what MSN and Yahoo were producing.
They told me (very tight paraphrasing) their crawler analyzes the content of webpages in their index to determine the search queries for which they're most relevant. Further, they told me that if I create an information-rich site that clearly and accurately describes my topic, it'll likely return for my desired keywords.
Too bad that's not the happening, and since there's no final authority on the subject, I guess we'll never know.
Welcome to the future of publishing and good luck.
Anyone else whose site is tanking sees a rank discrepancy with regular searches and their "allin's"?
Hey G, just because someone repeats their own co. motto on every page does NOT make them a scraper!
Check out the following example:
[google.com...]
Look at the second item. It comes from Ask.UK. Has anyone seen this before? It this part of the new algo? Show pages from the competitors?
Oh Mike, I can hear SNL's "Oh No" guy in my head again.
The worse is yet to come? C'mon, it can only get better, though I must admit the data centers have been pretty stable all day in my little craft niche.
I also suspect there might be one more stage, the worst, yet to come.... Posting of NEW PR's. I'm guessing those who lost ranking also somehow lost major PR. Right now we're still showing a PR6 but bobbing about in the SERPs with the PR2's.
The February shakeup toppled one of my sites. Then, later, when toolbar PR updated, guess what? My PR had dropped. I was almost relieved to at least have a possible reason for the fall in ranking. Might not have been the PR drop that caused the rankings drop, but at least it was something that made sense. So, you might be on to something here.
Until this update is more stable I have nothing to say, except to ask is there a crust on the lava.
Brett confirmed the update in [webmasterworld.com...] msg# 28
Anyone else whose site is tanking sees a rank discrepancy with regular searches and their "allin's"?
Yes. Huge difference. It feels like Florida, we got hit then too, a nicely optimized site... Just wondering, anyone else using CSS-P, source ordered type pages, and found you're out in the cold?
LisaB
Hmm, an interesting idea. WE ARE Adsense publishers too, who don't advertise with adwords, and our CPM dropped a bit last month, and our SERPs now have dropped some 75 places... Perhaps you're on to something.
Well, there's a theory circulating that they use Alexa traffic data to determine Adsense PPCs/Smart-Pricing formulas so it's just another step up to use Adsense earnings data to feed back to Google SERPs. They want to spread the $ around and make sure no single site dominates and gets too much. Unfortunately they have no data about NON-adsense publishers who are making a killing with private sales in the top spots. Why else would they go out and buy all these otherwise useless companies than for complete knowledge of and control over all surfing data? Time to quit Adsense and drop off the radar again.
Aw darn, now this post will probably be cen$0red too...
I joined the vocal anti-scraper thread a couple of months back claiming them as searcher aggravating, information-free SERP bloaters.
Now they're gone and I'm gone with them. (I'll be more careful what I wish for.... )
OK, bring 'em back!
Please don't wake me up, I like this dream. :)
Granted they may not have penalized only non-adsense advertisers, so how about advertisers under or over a certain level, or who match for various keywords, or any of a possible zillion combinations they could configure to maximize their revenue and profit.
I doubt that you are naive enough to think that they are not playing to their own benefit, and that's all I'm trying to say.
If it's a big deal to you, fine, OK, my theory is disproven. You win. Happy days.
Their constant fiddling with their algo may be the best thing for the web. Heavy dependence on one source for anything is always a risky gambit in business.
Best to diversify traffic flows at this point. (Actually should have been doing it all along - my bad)
Sounds like more work for everybody, but, believe me, I'd rather see 20,000 writers, publishers, techies, designers, hobbyists and SEOs making some dough and making the web a bit more democratic than all of the money and power focused on an elite few at the 'plex.
There's an obvious need for another network or six, as well, and other revenue opportunities for webmasters and publishers.
What gets me is the attidue some people have, as in statements like, "google's giving you all this traffic for free."
Look at it from another point of view: G makes all their dough because of web sites, us. If other methods for search or traffic generation are developed and employed, G will be seen for what the are: the mother of all scraper sites. And remember, webmasters have the ultimate power to exclude any spider they please, including the big G.
I'm already working on a couple of ideas...
Well, my 14 year old just came into my room and told me how she couldn't find anything she was looking for in Google(she had not idea about this update). As an example her favorite movie site (actually a very popular large database of celebrity/movie info)was missing. I finally found it on page 5. This is a HUGE site, with excellent information.
This proved to me that it's not just my self centered interest, even younger users see a difference.
idea-
go to google images find a nice yahoo logo, in photoshop add: "Find us in (yahoo logo) search" and add it to your homepage.
64.233.183.99
64.233.183.104
Have any of you noticed changes eleswhere on the datacenters?
go to google images find a nice yahoo logo, in photoshop add: "Find us in (yahoo logo) search" and add it to your homepage.Or just go to this page and right click on the logo.
I think it's time for someone to start a "Serious Google Update Thread" like the ones we had for Florida and Allegra. :-)
Maybe soon ;)
There are at least 2 sets of results out still.
Pagerank for sites caconolized has not spread.
Backlinks have not fully spread.
Only thing is - as was mentioned before when did Allerga finish?
>There are at least 2 sets of results out still.<
Is it possible that Google shall operate with two (or more) everchanging sets..until further. I.e Google shall continue on an "Update Status" until further, just as you mentioned correctly since allegra?
I would have thought the Page rank would spread through all the DCs though.
