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Minor Shuffling - Incremental Indexing

Not enough changes to be an update.

     

alexdo

7:02 pm on May 15, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



hi to all off google watchers

I see a huge changes in google serps across all the google datacenters in europe and asia but US serps are the same...

A few of my site goes up and a few goes down

Did you see the same changes?

Thanks

Alex

oldpro

8:56 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Same here...glad most of my traffic are direct hits, but it is the principal of the thing.

Hanu

9:01 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Before panic breaks out: bear in mind that the G folks like to do internal index updates/shuffles in PR order. Your page might come back later because it has a higher PR.

helleborine

9:18 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I hope you're right - I've got comparatively high PR for my niche. Maybe that's it - give me some hope - but why would my site be completely gone?

jadebox

9:39 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




Sounds exactly like what happened to a site of mine a couple months ago. The top 30 sites are all sites that link to mine ...

That's exactly the same problem I see with my shareware site. Searching for the unique (long) phrase that is the program's title, about 25 sites are listed that link to my site before my site is listed. Something's broken. Did they accidently start applying PR backwards?

-- Roger

Papagaio

9:43 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've seen major changes. I've also noticed that while previously, if I searched for widget, I would get lots of sites returned with "widget" highlighted in the descriptions, I am now getting sites returned with "widget", "widgeting", "wid" [whole word], "widgeter", "widgetness", "widg" [whole word], etc., highlighted in the descriptions.

reseller

10:01 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Folks

Can any of you who was affected by allegra see any boost in Google traffic? and can you see some of the pages that lost top positions on the serps by allegra regaining positions to some extent?

[edited by: reseller at 10:08 pm (utc) on May 17, 2005]

janethuggard

10:02 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It could be the loss of pr is a result of the prior dumping, rank down grading, and resulting Alexa down grade, which began to spiral downward, a couple months ago...even gradually.

It takes a while for the full effect of the first downgrade to trickle through all levels of the serps management. As a rule, we call it three months.

That would take us back to Feb, when many webmasters seen wild changes in their serps. We were one of them. We hunkdered down to fight off what we knew would take place 3 months later, and came out on top this time around. If you wait three months to realize the big picture, it will take you another 3-6 months to recover the losses.

Act now to save Q4.

helleborine

10:30 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Do you have recommendations, janethuggard?

reseller

10:38 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Further to my previous post (msg #:96), I'm going to make a prediction before hitting the bed.

Sites which were negatively affected by allegra (3rd Feb 2005) and didn't wait but instead made major cleaning as to removing 302 redirects, duplicates, light SEO work etc.. shall be rewarded by this "Minor Shuffling".

willybfriendly

10:49 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Under the singular "widget" iy site appears with its description tag as its snippet.

Under the plural term "widgets" it appears with the DMOZ description as its snippet.

WBF

europeforvisitors

11:07 pm on May 17, 2005 (gmt 0)



Sites which were negatively affected by allegra (3rd Feb 2005) and didn't wait but instead made major cleaning as to removing 302 redirects, duplicates, light SEO work etc.. shall be rewarded by this "Minor Shuffling".

Well, I'm waiting to see rewards for sites that were hammered during the index changes of March 23 that Danny Sullivan called a "very significant update."

oldpro

12:50 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Ok...what is the common denominator?

1) Older established and/or high PR sites going to url only.
2) A surge in rank, then a big drop.
3) Scrapers,cloakers and button pushers seem to appearing at the top of the SERPs more.
4) Some previously sandboxed sites are now indexed.

To add what I have noticed in my sector...sites that are frequently revised or updated took the worst hit...a big jump in the total results, approximately 100,000 more pages. On my primary keyword phrase took the biggest hit, however with secondary less competitive phrases still in the same position.

I am probably the least qualified to make any assumptions...just reporting what I see. However, it seems to me that Google opened the barn door and turned off all their filters.

oldpro

1:00 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



janethuggard...

<It could be the loss of pr is a result of the prior dumping, rank down grading, and resulting Alexa down grade, which began to spiral downward, a couple months ago...even gradually. >

How does alexa determine ranking? I noticed that my site was downgraded by alexa recently, but my PR hasn't changed. From my own tracking logs my traffic has been way up over the past six months over 100%). Mostly from direct hits and not referred by SE's. Does alexa only measure traffic from Search Engines or is it not all that reliable.

And are you saying that alexa could be affecting what is going on now with this "update"?

Brett_Tabke

1:48 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Lets back up here - this was not a major update. This was merely a reshuffling based on incremental indexing (the daily stuff - aka FRESHBOT). You will not see many changes.

BillyS

2:04 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member billys is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Lets back up here - this was not a major update.

I hope your right because the only thing I've seen so far is a rollback on BL for a couple of DCs.

Seems to me that we're seeing some of the results from recent bot activity. For example, my site was spidered heavily about three days ago. Today, I am showing about 30 more pages in the index. Exactly what I've added over the past month or so.

Spine

2:04 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I'm with Europeforvisitors, my traffic has been struggling since March 23rd, much as it did after September 23rd.

In the case of the September bomb, I was back in style by December - 3 months. In those 3 months I saw page after page of SERP with crap, auto-generated junk, and more crap, then one day my site was worthy of page 1 again, instead of page 25.

So now I've been crippled for the past 2 months, if it goes to 3 that's 6 months since last September.

For some reason my site existed happily in the Google index for 4 years before last fall, then Google became bi-polar.

I'd like to know if anybody who saw traffic go down on March 23 gets the numbers back to 90% of what they were - in this mini update or any other.

[edited by: Spine at 2:08 am (utc) on May 18, 2005]

arubicus

2:06 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



From what I see I would agree with brett. Seems like the normal shuffle with us.

Now that I think back it took us 1 month after sept. to get back to normal levels. September really didn't affect us much at all but there was a bit of a bump. December though we were completely flying and by January we peaked. Took a bump in Feb. March killed us. We expect June to start making our climb back up.

Just as we see things really zoom there is a period of prosperity and the cycle restarts. Gotta love it.

dazzlindonna

2:37 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



September really didn't affect us much at all but there was a bit of a bump. December though we were completely flying and by January we peaked. Took a bump in Feb. March killed us.

September 23
December 17
February 6
March 23
May 17

85 days / 51 days / 45 days / 55 days

I may not have the dates exactly right, but they should be close enough. On each of those dates, some people saw massive changes, others said no update was happening (as far as I can remember). Looking back through some old threads, this really feels like a cyclical thing happening - only it doesn't affect everyone like it did in the old days of the dance. Yet it does feel like the same kinds of things are being seen. Similar symptoms.

Also, on those same dates, some of the people who lost in one of the earlier dates, came back strong in that one. And so on and so on and so on. Regardless of what this "event" might be called, it is sounding much like the other events on those dates.

I'm not very good with math, but isn't math also somehow related to patterns? I'm seeing a pattern of repetition developing, which may help us see things a little differently if we can recognize some pieces of the pattern.

Just my thoughts on this "non-update" update. :)

helleborine

2:39 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



this WAS not a major update

You mean it's over and we'll have to live with these results until the next shuffle? Ouch!

oldpro

2:56 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Seeing a significate increase in number of pages returned, at least for my sector. Most competitive keyword usually returns about 800,000 results. Went up to 900,000 yesterday and 1,100,000 today. I know this will depend on the time of day and the datacenter running. The top 20, which i am in, staying the same but re-shuffles drastically depending on the total number of results.

I'm not all that concerned about whatever this is, but it just seems to me that if this is freshbot, the degrees in incremental indexing are much more pronounced than what I have perceived them to be in a while.

digitalv

3:16 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Ok, here's an interesting question - I have two computers in front of me, both with the Google Toolbar installed. One of them is showing my site as a PageRank 9 where it was before this update. The other one is showing it as an 8. Cache cleared, refreshed, etc... what the heck?

annej

6:18 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member annej is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I see a couple of interesting things. Second level pages have replaced the home page on some 2 and 3 word search phrases. A little more like MSN results.

The most curious thing I've noticed is that when I search "widget history" the results don't just highlight "widget" but also "widgets" and "widgeting". I wonder if Google is looking at different forms of the same word now, they never did before. I don't see this happening on one word searches.

Many of my pages are down by one on PR but overall the key words & phrases I am most concerned about are still in the top 10. It's just all mixed around a little.

Right now I do the best overall on Yahoo. Too bad so few people use Yahoo.

reseller

6:33 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



digitalv

<Ok, here's an interesting question - I have two computers in front of me, both with the Google Toolbar installed. One of them is showing my site as a PageRank 9 where it was before this update. The other one is showing it as an 8. Cache cleared, refreshed, etc... what the heck? >

Try to uninstall and then reinstall the toolbar. It might help.

McMohan

7:24 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I wonder if Google is looking at different forms of the same word now, they never did before.

Google has been doing stemming and highlighting various word forms for quite sometime now.

rituel

8:58 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Minor ... not for me : I lost 3000 pages in 3 days!

221b

9:07 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I just check 17/05/ logs
traffik +50% ,I had nearly a Hard attack during Alegra (but steady recovery from begining of March)now is the sweet harvest.

arras

10:24 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)


What's goin on here,the scraper trash autogenerated sites from several UK affiliates > hehespot....of the type
http://www.widgetfoo.com/go.pl?zDgjv11164104431
dominates the most competitive terms.Google when are you going to vanish them?

LostOne

11:48 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"I'd like to know if anybody who saw traffic go down on March 23 gets the numbers back to 90% of what they were"

Not happening here--off 60% from March 23. I don't see any changes in my industry.

reseller

11:53 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



arras

<What's goin on here,the scraper trash autogenerated sites from several UK affiliates.....>

You are looking at the Revenge of Affiliate Marketing.

Live and Let Live :-)

helleborine

11:59 am on May 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Just trying to figure out why my site has dropped from #1 to position #4,678,011...

My site is a good site and the visitors it targets just love it. My site is THE authority site. There is no other. Many people spend a half hour on my site, viewing in excess of 300 pages.

Could it be a sudden increases in links? This is NOT reflected in the number of links in the link: command, but the increase is real.

In the past couple of months, when my site was enjoying the #1 position for its keyword, there has been a sharp increase in incoming links from many sites and from bloggers.

I have a page for every "free widget plan" I offer. There is a page for free "twisted" widget plan, free "wonky" widget plan, free "banana" widget plan, etc. Boatloads of scrapers for the keywords "twisted" "wonky" and "banana" have links to my sites.

My index page features a list of links to all my internal pages that contain "free widget plans." And for a long time I ranked poorly because Google thought my page was about "twisted wonky bananas." I added link titles and some text about widget plans, and that seemed to do the trick.

In closing, I'm guessing that my problem is either a surge in link popularity, or something with titles that may be too rich with keywords.

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