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The update now appears to be over. So let's discuss the algo.
What I think google changed in the algo this update...
- Backlinks count for less. I see pages with a handful of less than outstanding quality doing well.
- Keyword density counts for more. I see poorly linked pages stuffed with a set of keywords doing well.
- Semantics / LSI - no evidence. If anything I notice a narrowed focus works better. 'clothes for women'!= 'clothes for her'!= 'clothes for woman' in Google right now.
- Hilltop = no evidence. Seeing pages from small, obscure, never seen before sites ranking well.
- On page factors count for more. It's the only way I can explain some pages rankings.
- No evidence of penalising affiliate sites.
There's a start... my tuppence worth.
I look forward to reading your analysis / thoughts.
ps: mods, please help keep this thread clean by deleting rants / moving to other Allegra thread.
There was a big shift in algorithm priorities DURING the update that I saw, but this is usual as things are shifted around. During the update I saw my older sites drop in traffic whilst my newer ones jumped in traffic. Things are back to normal now at my end though.
The recent cnet article about Google becoming a registrar has me wondering. It was stated that Google doesn't want sell domains, quote:
"Google became a domain name registrar to learn more about the Internet's domain name system," a company representative said Tuesday. "We believe this information can help us increase the quality of our search results."
I am wondering, as I have my company listed as billing and tech contacts for all my clients' domain info, if this has not factored into the new index and site ranking?
Anyone have any thoughts?
joined:Sept 20, 2004
Definitely noticed that the odd page that has gone to #1 from #2 or 3 has a lot of on page descriptive keywords, nothing else was changed to those pages.
Interestingly the same pages have also at the same time gone to #1 in Yahoo! and MSN.
I also SEE this in the areas I've checked on Google.
What makes you think you were penalised for being an affiliate?
I said 'no evidence' on the basis that my sites are all affiliate sites in competitive retail areas and remain strong in this update - many #1/#2/#3 positions on 20million plus results terms.
Of course, we can only analyse what we see for our own sites. What makes you think it was the affiliate aspect that caused your fall from grace?
I've gone from an average position of #3 on several medical terms to an average position of #100+ with a substantial drop in Google traffic. (1000 referrals/day to <200 referrals/day)
I have gone through 3 mild name changes in the last 5 years - domain1.com, domain2.com, domain3.com
Each time, I have pointed the old domain at the new domain, because I didn't want to lose the traffic I got from Yahoo and MSN, who gladly index all three domain names individually. As a matter of fact, that's why I'm not now out of business after the Allegra update.
Google always pretty much ignored the old domains in favor of the newest domain. (which I assumed to be because of the duplicate content filter)
I also registered a 4th and 5th domain variation of my name (for spelling purposes) and pointed it at my web site for a total of 5 URL's showing similar content with slight domain name variations.
Now, I've dropped 100+ slots on most key words, and show up #4 for my own unique business name - with 3 results above me that link to me.
So my quess is that they are splitting the Page Rank between the 5 domain names that point to the same web site.
Unfortunately, to test my theory, I will lose the Yahoo/MSN traffic that now sustains me if I turn those domains off and/or point them to different content.
Any similar experience and/or ideas to overcome this Catch-22 situation is greatly appreciated...
Google Page Rank results for "mybusinessname"
Pos - Pagerank - Incoming Link Count
1 3/10 (5 inbound links)
2 0/10 (9 inbound links)
3 0/10 (0 inbound links)
4 4/10 (320 inbound links) << Here I am
5 2/10 (7 inbound links)
6 2/10 (5 inbound links)
7 4/10 (0 inbound links)
8 2/10 (0 inbound links)
9 2/10 (0 inbound links)
10 5/10 (0 inbound links)
These are not consistent with the PageRank theory...
[edited by: rehabguy at 8:57 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2005]
I really don't monitor specific kewords so it's hard for me to evaluate any changes. I do know that traffic has dropped for me between this update and changes made on 12/17.
What is strange is that on one site of mine the traffic doubled. This site is nothing but duplicate content, but so are the other web sites on this subject. I don't know if this is due to getting out of the sandbox or not. The site went live in April 2004.
I noticed that many of my long standing positions for my "hobby/content" sites seem unaffected.
[edited by: MrSpeed at 9:04 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2005]
"For those who have been here a while, this is a thread topic I have started before for earlier updates. I'm starting this thread because another member suggested such would be a good idea because the main google update thread is cluttered with posts like "OMG, I've been dropped in the new index!" and "Yippee, I'm now #1 on a key SERP". This thread is ONLY for serious, generic discussion of changes that you are observing with the new algo in this update. As in things like "Looks to me like PR is less important this month, and anchor text of inbound links counts more.", etc. How your site is doing has no relevance here unless you can explain why you think so in terms of a general algo update."
The key element was how *your* sites are doing is irrelevant. Thus, please keep everything generic.
When searching for my website via its name, the description appearing in the search results is from the Directory listing. These are the exact words from DMoz and do not appear anywhere on the website at all as written. Anyone else seeing this?
Could this be an attempt to link the directory with the results more closely?
Of my websites and SERPS that I monitor the only major change that I have seen is that one of my sites is MIA.
The only difference between that site and the others (that I have noticed) is that the site that has disappeared had no redirect from the [mysite.com...] to [mysite.com...] while all of my other sites did.
I would also have to say that the MIA site competes in an area that is particularly prone to spammers (although my site is not an affiliate site).
Other than that I don't see any more changes than the normal small fluctuations.
joined:Apr 22, 2004
other than that most everything else is the same.
lots of keyword stuffing sites
ie search for "generic clothes store"
shows tons of spam pages that are efffectivly dynamically generated keyword lists
Something else that strikes me about this new Algo is the favouring of sub pages? 80 to 90% of top ten pages on three money terms I just checked are subpages not the domain / index. This is something I hadn't noticed previously?
Has anyone else noticed increased prevalence of subpages?
By on page I mean clean/lean code with the basic optimization in place. Another site I am associated with that has a bunch of Flash garbage munging up the code fell far from grace. Similar search terms, PR 5. This one fell to #60 of 342 for its business name, which is a VERY unique name. 59 sites containing links and/or reference to the site in question now rank above it.
1st site is PHP on linux/apache. 2nd is straight HTML running on a windows server. Both are "informational" in as much as neither engages in any sort of e-commerce.
Both have DMOZ listings. The lost site is at least 4 years older than the found site.
These pages seem to have few/no external links to the pages.
<speculation>They seem to be ranking on the authority power of the site passed thru internal navigation</speculation>
I also see "chat" and "forum" pages where people mention products ranking above people selling the product.
- On page factor scoring has changed a lot. It seems that less importance is now given to the TITLE tag. Also the "implicit quotes" around search terms are not as strong. Together these mean that having "blue" in your TITLE and "widgets" somewhere on your page is pretty much as good as having "Blue Widgets" as your TITLE. Big mistake.
- Keywords in the URL are now pretty much irrelevant.
- Internal links count for a lot less. You need deep links from external sites more than ever.
- I still have this feeling that they've turned way up the weight given to anchor text on outgoing links. This could be one reason that blogspam and directories rank highly.
- No real evidence of LSI, though a combination of the above mistakes could result in the appearance of poorly implemented LSI.
>> So a search (without quotes) for "allegra update" and "update allegra" must give same SERP?
My tracking graphs still look like there's a bad liar taking a polygraph.
joined:Sept 20, 2004
1. Title tag very important IF body text relevant
2. Keywords in url important IF body text relevant
You need deep links from external sites more than ever.
Not for me.
Strangely "keyword keyword" on a very important keyword moves me from #2 to #1 and the current #1 to #2!
Interesting views eh?
- Google is going to cleanup the 302-redirect issue...
- The sites linking to me using the "go.php" and other 302-redirect scripts all have their cache dates set to 1969. They are also listed as suplimental results. I am hopeful that the next place for these people are to be completely removed from the index.
- I think sites are being penalized temporarily to find out who the real owner of the content is... Once the scraper sites and 302-redirect sites are removed - the real sites will rise back up in the standings.
- This may be a multi step process. Google could have started last month with a certain segment of the index. Notice how people are saying there sites are rising once again after being down.
joined:Apr 22, 2004
I have tons of 302's to other sites ( my links directory uses 302's, I am to lazy to fix it, and a few frontpage links use 302's to some people who scraped me ) and all the pages that perform the 302's rank well for there area.
furthermore I am not seeing this 302 ( page jacking ) issue at all with my stuff.