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PR up, down or the same?

If outbound links are shifted.

         

georgeek

5:19 pm on Feb 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Here is a hypothetical question that has been puzzling me.

A site anything.com PR7 has all outbound links on one page (www.anythinghere.com/links) and a there are a few internal links to the page.

Now three changes are made;

1. The page www.anythinghere.com/links is removed.
2. Internal links to www.anythinghere.com/links are replaced by a new outbound link to an unindexed new site with one page www.anynewsite.com/index.
3. www.anynewsite.com/index is created as an exact copy of the old www.anythinghere.com/links page

No other changes are made.

Would you expect the PR to increase, decrease or remain the same?

mivox

11:09 pm on Feb 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I wouldn't expect the anythinghere.com's PR to be affected one way or another, since AFAIK, PR is determined by incoming links...

doc_z

11:32 pm on Feb 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



If www.anynewsite.com/index links to the same pages as www.anythinghere.com/links (this means that not only the outgoing links are the same but also the backlinks to www.anythinghere.com are unchanged) I expect that the PR of all sites remain the same, because the link structure doesn't change. That the link site is on a different domain shouln't play a role.

deejay

11:38 pm on Feb 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I have to admit you’ve confused me here, so I’m gonna have to rephrase the question to make sure I get what you’re asking.

So:
1 Your site is www.mydomain.com
2 Your links page for that site is www.mydomain.com/links.html
3 www.mydomain.com/links.html has PR7 (because there’s no such thing as ‘site PR, we have to talk about the individual page).
4 links.html is deleted, and your links page is now housed at www.linksdomain.com/index.html.
5 The internal linking structure of www.mydomain.com doesn’t change, other than to point hyperlinks for the old links.html to the new www.linksdomain.com/

I think the gist of the question is “what is the change in PR of a links page if it is moved from the main domain to an unrelated domain” ie, will www.linksdomain.com/index.html retain the PR7 of the old internal links page by virtue of having the same incoming links as the old page. Is that it?

Answer: I don’t know. That would be determined by whether PR available for outgoing external links from a page comes from the same pool as PR available for outgoing internal links from a page. I’m sure someone here will have done some research on that and could confirm.

If external and internal links DO come from the same pool, then you could theoretically achieve either a fractional gain or loss across the site from moving the links page to an external domain, depending on how you work it.

If external and internal links DON’T come from the same pool, then removing the links page to an external domain will have no effect on PR.

But... I think you may be basing this move on an incorrect premise - that outgoing links diminish the PR of the page they are on. They don’t.

stevenha

11:55 pm on Feb 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This question is kinda like one of those logic IQ questions. I think the answer is, PR stays the same. The same number of outgoing links in both cases, just moved from being on one page, to being on multiple pages.

It probably wouldn't be "Exactly" the same, to decimal point precision, but close enough.

But if the links page had many hundreds of links, there could be an additional factor. Remember Google's suggestion to keep less than 100 links on a page? Who knows exactly what consequence that has... but it might have also have a little effect, but probably not enough to notice.

NickCoons

1:27 am on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



georgeek,

The PR should remain the same, *unless* the following is true:

- The old links page had incoming links that were not under your control (i.e. from pages outside of your site) so have not been updated to point to the new links page, and,
- You have not setup 301 redirects from the old links page to the new one.

aspdesigner

12:07 pm on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



All other things being equal, PR will not change. There is no difference between and internal link and a link to another domain as far as PR credit is concerned.

Changes in you site's structure and the location of your links page within it CAN alter PR, but that's a whole other story...

egomaniac

2:33 pm on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



PageRank is scored on a page by page basis. Not on site basis.

Outbound links from a page have no effect on PageRank. You could have 0, 5, 10, 1000, or 5000 links on a page and this would not affect that page's own PageRank score. They are not part of the PageRank calculation.

Internal vs. External is also not a part of PageRank. The internal/external distinction probably is another separate factor in the Google algorithm for ranking pages, but it is not part of the PageRank calculation.

So to answer your question, the PageRank score of www.anything.com/index.html will stay the same at PR7. If your question is about the PR score of your links page, that would also stay the same even though you are moving that page to a different domain (assuming I read your question correctly and the structure of the linking to that page stays the same).

hakre

2:43 pm on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



hi georgeek,

i think the following would happen:

www.anythinghere.com/links won't be found any longer and the www.anythinghere.com will loose all it's outbounding links. the new index will be found but not re-spidered into the se index that fast. pr will fall down, because all incomming links will lead to the /links page, which does not exists any longer, or will stay the same if they linked to the index page.

after that, pr will grow, because there are hundreds of incomming links to your domain which don't have a reciprocal link (the links page is away).

but then pr will fall again, because the index is freshly indexed. this was the old links page, so nothing on (link-)content has changed.

afterwards all has to be the same, because nothing has changed at all. only the links page moved, but in theory that's how your site could have been on the web before/at first, right? same content in sum. pr must be the same then or this all tricked google that much, she got a headache.

so it's an iq test and i failed. this thread [webmasterworld.com] tells a lot more about it than some theoretical thinkabouts nonsense like i wrote ;)

NickCoons

4:47 pm on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



egomaniac,

<Outbound links from a page have no effect on PageRank. You could have 0, 5, 10, 1000, or 5000 links on a page and this would not affect that page's own PageRank score. They are not part of the PageRank calculation.>

On the surface, it may appear that way. But the PR of a page is affected if it has links to outside of the site. Here's how:

Home Page links to Page1. Page1 has a link only to the Home Page. That means 100% of the PR that Page1 can give is being directed to the Home Page. Since the Home Page links to Page1, it's going to have a greater ability to increase Page1's PR. If Page1 now links to a page outside of the site, it means that it's not passing less PR to the Home Page, which increases the Home Page's PR by a smaller amount, which decreases the Home Page's ability to increase Page1's PR.

egomaniac

6:37 pm on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hey NickCoons,

I agree with your discussion of how linking structures can alter the PR of a page through feedback loops. I disagree though with the way in which you phrase it. The feedback process simply results in more inbound links to a particular page, with more PR flowing through those inbound links.

In your example the outbound link from the home page do not *directly* affect the PR of the home page. The effect is indirect. The direct affect on that home page comes from the link from Page 1.

In other words, more links gives you more PR. Some links (e.g. internal to our sites) we have more control over than others.

NickCoons

6:50 pm on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



egomaniac,

<In your example the outbound link from the home page do not *directly* affect the PR of the home page. The effect is indirect. The direct affect on that home page comes from the link from Page 1.>

I guess that depends on your distinguishment between direct and indirect. If I add a link to my page which points to a page another site, it is going to lower the PR of my page. That sounds pretty direct to me.