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I've been racking my brain for some time now why my link form has a PR0. I never found an answer, but at least I was sure that my link page has a slightly lower PR because it links to a PR0 page.
Is it possible that I have been mistaking the chicken for the egg? Maybe the lower rank on my links page is due to a couple of links to "bad" sites (of course that's possible). And (that's my question) the link form has a PR0 because the only page that is linking to it has a penalty on it?
I know that Google indicates that the ideal number of links on a page is 100 or lower, but it shouldn't be a page rank issue as far as I know (?).
[webmasterworld.com...]
as far as i can tell the number of links is dramatically damaging my pr, as i have yet to find another explaination.
hope this helps.
bh: I've considered that one as well, but actually I can't believe it. There are a lot of pages out there that have tons of links on them, and some of them are very useful resources (bad layout, but who cares?). These sites do very well, and there's no sign that Google grudges them for the number of links they have. I've noticed the problem you mention only with site maps, and on most occasions there are REALLY many links (>1,000 like in your case) and the page only consists of URLs with no additional text or information.
are you sure its not linking out to linkfarm pages (other PRO pages)?
Entirely possible that I missed something a couple of months ago, and Google didn't take it kindly. Anyway, that wasn't my question. Essentially I wanted to know if a PR4 page can "pass on" a PR0 to another page. There's nothing bad on that link form page, no outgoing links etc., and in fact I use basically the same page on a different site of mine where Google likes it.
Was looking at my homepage last month and there was about 160 links on it (who knew?). I pared it down quite a bit, just because of the fact that I was wasting links. I don't think that page ever got penalized, though. It's PR was (and is) just about where I thought it deserved to be. I was just wondering why stuff at the end of my page didn't get the PR I thought it should.
<shrug> Who knows.
Now, for the question - if you only have one page on the web linking to your "form page" and the page that links to it has 200 links on it, then it is likely to get a PR 0 as very little PR is passed along to it. Split that page up into 4 pages (or even 8 pages) and you'll also be passing along more benefit to the sites you're trading links to (and you'll have 4 or 8 links to your form page).
G.
What will happen when i do the following thing:
I make a page with about 1000-2500 links futher no text, only links and then submit this site
like this:
x (www.example.com)
x (www.example.com/00001.htm)
x (www.example.com/00002.htm)
Etc.
where x is the hyperlink...
don't forget that page rank is passed on quite differently within the same domain
menyak,
thats quite a claim to make, can you elaborate?
>>A page linked to a PR4 should be at least PR3, no matter how many links
A page linked from a PR4 page, (receiving no other links) can be - depending on the amount of links - anything from a PR0 to a PR4 in my view.
krbulldog,
1000-2500 links on a PR4 page would probably lead to PR0 on the receiving end.
2. Menyak, there's no way you can know exactly what rank a page should have, unless you have set up a test site with a very simple and controlled linking structure. A discrepancy of one digit is well within the margin of error, and there's no need to hypothesize that the page is being penalized for any reason.
Interesting, there's a major dampener (huge if we're talking rar PR) at some point. I know it's less than about 250-260 links, so if we agree with each other then we've narrowed it to between 150 and 260?
With a base of 6, a damping factor of .85, a low PR4 would give a high PR0 with 210 links. That doesn't count any penalties for too many links that might come into play.
Ciml, do you agree that pagerank is passed on the same way no matter if a page is part of the same domain or not?
Personally, I've neither seen nor heard of any evidence that whether links are within the same domain makes any difference in Google's PageRank calculation. Certainly it doesn't as PR is described in Brin and Page's original documentation of it in the paper from Stanford.
I haven't done controlled testing like ciml has, just spot checks to make sure PR is flowing properly. Just to clarify, there could be a reduction of say 1 PR point starting somewhere under 150 links that would be hard to pick up via ad hoc testing, but I haven't noticed a major dropoff.
The funny thing is that in a different forum I used to frequent I read numerous posts stating that within a domain, PR is basically passed on according to your linking structure. In other words, all pages you can directly reach from your main page have a PR that's 0.9 points less, two clicks means -1.8, etc. (This of course if no external links are pointing to one of the sub-pages.) And up till now, this has been working for me, I have four websites and all of them are following this "rule" pretty closely.
But what you guys have told me would finally explain my PR4 and my PR0 page, which I was trying so hard to understand. And no penalties involved - hey, I like it. :)
Just one question: my main pages have hundreds of external links pointing to them, plus the internal links. The sub pages ONLY have the internal links pointing to them, yet they have a PR that's lagging less than a single point behind. That's a pretty high ranking, me thinks. Wouldn't it suggest that it's at least EASIER for internal pages to catch up on some PR?
> ...In other words, all pages you can directly reach from your main page have a PR that's 0.9 points less, two clicks means -1.8, etc. (This of course if no external links are pointing to one of the sub-pages.)
The flow also depends on the number of links, that's aside from the extra decrease past some threshold.
jomaxx makes a good point, small weighting factors are hard to pick up. I should explain what I meant here:
> "...there's a major dampener (huge if we're talking rar PR)..."
(that should be "raw PR", not "rar PR")
For the case of 250-ish links that I mentioned earlier, I get a PR drop of about 3.3 Toolbar notches where I would have expected (from the sub-100 trend) a drop of about 1.7 notches. That difference of 1.5 on the Toolbar scale is more than a 99% drop in raw PR according to my figures (though only a 93% drop based on the majority figure for the effective log base, 6).
menyak, I think that your last question is to do with feedback loops or parent pages with relatively few links. There was a craze for wildly overestimating the effects of PageRank feedback; there is an affect but it's small when you're looking at it through the Toolbar scale.
Or that ALL links are receiving less PR than expected and that pagerank may therefore be evaporating away from the site? I don't think that's what you're describing, but it be a huge concern for me if true.
jomaxx I'm saying that the position in the page makes no difference IMO (though other people believe differently). I'm also saying that ALL links are receiving less PR than expected and that pagerank is evaporating. What I see could be something like "if >nnn links then PR given out = PR given out -1.5 on the Toolbar", or "if >nnn links then raw PR given out = raw PR given out / 100".
menyak:
> ...what's the difference between the different pagerank notches?
Some people say six times, some say ten times, I say more and someone seemed to think it was about three.
The question then, is who to believe?
