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I looked today: the hits have stopped and Google has reverted back to the old version of the page.
What is going on? The site changes were made before the superbowl update so surely it can't be everflux at work?
2 other sites that I am promoting never got re-indexed (and I think the changes were made before the December update!). They are fairly well linked.
Any ideas?
<added>And be grateful for the couple of days at #1 while looking forward to being there longer term after the next dance hopefully :-)</added
I had a very good ranking... and now, nothing! What gives?
AlexV, if your situation is the same as namniboose, then it's likely the same explanation. You're seeing irregular freshbot results that only last for a day or two after the 64.68.xx.xx bot comes through, then you see the last indexing again.
I'm glad when it goes back to the monthly index. Freshbot causes my index page to disappear. It really pisses me off.
The FreshBot is not making you disappear. The results that are shown as a result of freshbot disappear after several days and the cache is reverted to that of the last time GoogleBot 216.239.46... indexed your site. Freshbot was responsible for your being there and now that the fresh listings are gone, so are you. The freshbot was the sole reason you were there.
Of course this only applies to certain situations and you may be gone for several reasons. You can be gone due to a lack of visits from freshbot, but you can not be gone because of freshbot.
My index page is my trade name and ranks #1 on every monthly crawl, with a subsidiary page at #2. But then along comes freshbot and dumps it, allowing someone else to jump into my slot, leaving two of my subsidiary pages in positions #2 and #3.
Now, get this: when I punch the Google search button A SECOND TIME my index reappears in #1. [You're probably thinking 'browser', but no: this happens on all browsers, on all systems, on www2 and www3. This is NOT at my end].
What I suspect is that freshbot's pages rely more heavily on on-page elements [since the rival for my slot is very in yer face on the page, while I have a better pr and a mass of anchored supporting pages on those keywords]. If so, I may be pointing towards a crude spam being more effective on a fresh page than on the monthly 'hard copy', as I think of it. Also that the ranking of a fresh page may not necessarily carry over to the next month. I think it's possible that these fresh pages may not be picking up all the links, or the directories or something.
This double click on the button is a whole other mystery, which I have never seen mentioned elsewhere. Maybe if other people don't see what they expect, they might try this also. It can't just be me.
I cannot seem to get any response on the forum to this question:
2 other sites that I am promoting never got re-indexed (and I think the changes were made before the December update!). They are fairly well linked.
Any ideas?
But... When I use google.be (Belgian site for Google) my ranking is back!
[edited by: Stefan at 11:12 pm (utc) on Feb. 1, 2003]
Why have these 2 sites not been re-indexed? Is this a known phenomena?
BTW its rude to shout
Were they indexed then dropped, namniboose?
NFFC:
I don't understand how freshbot could do this?
Shout? I would never shout! That was a howl of desperation, not shouting.
I bet if you could be more specific about all the details that you might get some good advice from others who know more than me. Myself, I haven't been able to exactly understand the timeline and events yet.
"2 other sites that I am promoting never got re-indexed (and I think the changes were made before the December update!). They are fairly well linked."
"No, they have never been dropped. Nothing changed during the January update (actually I believe I got the changes on before the Dec update too)."
Good luck
Thanks for responding, however.
Powdork: no, really, it IS freshbot that is doing this to me. As soon as a fresh tag comes up, my index drops out and remains unstable for several days, until the monthly index reappears (as it does for me intermittently throughout the month). This is a whole other thing to that feeling you get when a fresh page vanishes after a few days.
I'm a bit confused here. Is your site one of the ones with the fresh tags?
As far as I can tell one of two things is happening.
1. You have fresh tags. There were changes to the page that resulted in it not being ranked as well for that particular search phrase. Each time fresh tags show up, your ranking is worse than it was in the monthly update. A simple removal of a word in the search phrase (or switch from singular to plural) could easily cause this.
2. You don't have fresh tags. Other people are moving ahead of you when the fresh tags come out because of their improved content. While its natural for several sites to move in front of you it would be unnatural for everyone to change their sites at once.
No, my problem occurs without any changes, either to my disappearing index or to the "rival" site which jumps into my #1 slot when the freshbot passes through. This has been happening to me for six months or so.
The rival page is KEYWORD KEYWORD (first words top line, plus very high density on a very small page etc) and has been unaltered in years. My index is KEYWORD KEYWORD in more diluted form, supported by significant anchored links, directories and partial domain name showing as read by Yahoogle. My crude density is much lower than my rival's.
On the monthly, I'm #1, as I am on all other search engines. But then the freshbot arrives and causes the page to drop out. This causes me to deduce that fresh pages rely more on crude keyword density and less on links than deepcrawled pages.
The additional weirdness is that when freshbot is around (including a couple of days after it drops the tag) my index will REAPPEAR on a SECOND push of the Google search button. Then - and this is real strange - my #1 position will hold for several hours before being dropped again. So, for instance, I can get up in the morning double-click to raise my index, it will stay for a few hours when rechecked and then disappear again.
This happens on www/www2/3/Yahoogle/IE/Netscape/other peoples' computers, and is NOT a problem at my end. Using the Google dance tool, I can see variation across the servers, all of which correct on the second click.
Beats me. Thanks for your interest!
The rival page is KEYWORD KEYWORD (first words top line, plus very high density on a very small page etc) and has been unaltered in years. My index is KEYWORD KEYWORD in more diluted form, supported by significant anchored links, directories and partial domain name showing as read by Yahoogle. My crude density is much lower than my rival's.On the monthly, I'm #1, as I am on all other search engines. But then the freshbot arrives and causes the page to drop out. This causes me to deduce that fresh pages rely more on crude keyword density and less on links than deepcrawled pages.
This is what I would do.
First, make sure your server is returning the proper 'if modifed since' header specifically for that page. I doubt this has anything to do with it.
If everything is kosher there try changing a small unimportant part of the page (not to do with the search keywords) and get it fresh listed with the changes. See if the fact that you made a change has any effect. Nice thing about fresh listings is you don't have to wait all month.
When I want to make sure something gets fresh listed i always make sure I change the pages that are linking to it so my server does not return the 304 code and Freshbot gets to the page.
FreshBot, I believe, does weigh on page factors but not linking structure so perhaps this is what happens. Your rival's site has better on page factors which win over when fresh tags are present. You have a stronger link structure (internal and external) which causes you to move ahead when there are no fresh tags. Your internal pages have better on page factors than your index but your index has better link structure (internal pages usually are more KEYWORD targeted). Small changes to your on page factors should result in you winning in both situations. I use to always try and be as spam free as possible when i create my page titles. But i always change them and don't get to number one until the title matches the search terms exactly. Since then, I have learned not to be shy about this. Titles are very important and most likely the reason you are dropping to #2.
My .02
Seems to me that for all Google's public stress on pagerank etc, there's nothing quite like KEYWORD as the first word in the first line of the body text. My rival's small dense page opens:
KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2
blah, blah...
Mine is:
"clever strap across the top"
KEYWORD1 KEYWORD2
lots of meaningful content
He beats me on freshbot.
But you're right: I probably need to tweak my page, sadly downgrading elegance for good old density and in-yer-face keywords. Although my keywords aren't pizza or anything, I've long suspected that PR issues kick into play AFTER the on-page elements have been calculated. With freshbot (since this is the thread), it might be interesting to see whether ultra-dense (practically gateway) pages can spam you to the top with freshbot in a way they can't with the deepcrawl, providing you keep changing them. Be a lot of work though.
Having enjoyed my whine, I should also balance this out by saying I have about a dozen pages refering to significant global products riding above their manufacturers on the index. [Tee hee]
