Does PR count for anything any more?

PR goes up - position no change

[whats up skip]

I know there are many factors to SERP in Google, but PR just does not seem to matter any more.

We have a page that we have been working hard on now for over six months to move it up in the rankings. We have improved the key word density and the PR (now PR5).

We have increased the number of links, but it almost impossible to find out how many Google has taken account of as almost all the links to us and the pages above ours are PR3 or less. Hence they don't show up.

At the end of the day there are sites with lower PR (PR3 to our 5) less mentions of the key word and links, well we just cannot tell.

This is not our only page like this, but it is the one we have worked the hardest on.

[Brett_Tabke]

But what about the important aspect?

What have referrals done?

[daamsie]

I must say I feel like PR hasn't made any difference.. One of my 'pie in the sky' keyphrases only jumped one spot when my PR increased from 'grey' to 6! And that's on the 7th page of the results.. (that's 84 more incoming links than the month before also). The same was pretty much true for all my keywords - only went up about 5 spots at the most..

The only benefit that I saw this last month was getting a lot more pages indexed, which resulted in more traffic..

[percentages]

PR has definately been downgraded by the Google Algo...and this is a good thing IMHO. I believe Google saw that PR can be manipulated just as easily as any other factor and they have started to put more weight on keyword relevance to counter it.

To my mind PR still has a little too much value, but they are heading in the right direction on total overall balance :)

[BigDave]

I personally think they should start randomizing the weighting of the factors from month to month. That way, people will have to work on making a well rounded site.

[chiyo]

I may be completely off the planet, but we see PR mainly as an index of how well a page can pass on PR to its links, both internal and external. Far more than its significance as a direct factor affecting SERPs and positioning.

Now PR as you have noted is only one factor in many in actual SERP positioning. My feeling it is still a major factor, but relevance factors are more so, depending on the query term, as they should be.

So strategically, to us PR is a focus mainly in that we use our internal high PR pages as a way to selectively boost our other pages (and sometimes use external pages the same way), but not as a key aspect of SERP positioning - for that we concentrate on terms in hypertext in links incoming, terms in page title, url, headings and in body, and our links in relevant high PR external incoming pages.

So PR does count for a lot, but its not so obvious in the final results - PR's influence is further back in the food chain....

[edited by: chiyo at 6:39 am (utc) on Jan. 15, 2003]

[chiyo]

Big Dave, absolutely agreed, the more they can shift the weighting of parts of the algo month to month the less people can rely on opportunistic peripheral elements of the algos, and eventually after many months you end up with a much more well rounded site as you say...

After all, it is probably good for users and G! itself also to see continual changes in the SERPS for their fave searches month to month, as long as they are relevant. Webmasters hate it of course, especially if they "rely" on G referrals.

There is only one reliable spot on Google now, and thats Adwords or sponsored listings. Google can no longer be blamed for causing poverty and starvation to the families of mom and pop on-line businesses which suddenly drop off the free listings after many months at the top! Permanance is an illusion.

We usually use as a measure for our success not rankings in one engine but a few. If we are in the top 3 for say Google/AOL/Y! as well as Teoma, ATW, MSN and AV, we feel we have a mature site.

If the only engine we rank on for a site is G/AOL/Y! we see the site as immature and more subject to algo change disasters, and that our SERP positioning may still be based on opportunitistic factors that can change month to month.

[glengara]

I like the theory guys, just wonder if I'll be as appreciative of the practice!

[creative craig]

For me the PR has made a difference, on one of my web sites it dropped from a PR5 to a PR1 :( and the Google referrals have dropped alot! I have also slipped down the SERP for the index page as well on one of my main keywords.

Just have to start the slow rebuild :(

Craig

[mfishy]

Yes, PR has been a bit devalued. Yes PR can be manipulated, so can every other ranking factor- most much more easily (manipulate a PR 8).

I still think they should weigh PR a little more heavily

[Brian]

Skip: I'm assuming the site you're having trouble with is not the one in Japanese I found when I looked at your profile.

[cornwall]

Now PR as you have noted is only one factor in many in actual SERP positioning. My feeling it is still a major factor, but relevance factors are more so, depending on the query term, as they should be.

I agree with that. I think that too many people have come to believe that PR is/should be the only factor in SERP positioning.

However it stands to reason that PR of 6 on a "widget" site is not going to get it high SERP position for a query on "nuggets" that are only marginally touched on by the site.

The user of a search engine wants relevant results on the "nugget" query, not a list of pages from sites with high PR that happen to mention them!