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About Signing Guestbooks

         

HuhuFruFru

1:38 pm on Jan 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



after this january dance i got a pr6 for my first page and pr5 on my other pages. about 60% of my backlinks are from guestbooks. at a time when i was really desperate because no one gave me good links it was the only way to get "good links". about 250 links from pr5 and some from pr6-guestbooks sites were enough to get a pr6, and here are the results for my traffic from google:

1) when i do a search on my site with google using the "similar pages"-command in the toolbar i get only 30 guestbookresults and 3-4 similar results! this shows me that the main theme for my website is not my most relevant keyword, but guestbooks. so when you sign guestbooks (no matter if you use your keywords in the link text) google will interpret it in this way that your site is about guestbooks! (why would i otherwise get guestbook-results when using the similar pages-command!)

2) my keywords NEVER appear in the top ten of the serp's although all results above me have lower pr! you don't believe it? sign guestbooks and you'll see! it's really bad, because my keywords are everywhere on my pages (title, meta, alt, filenames, url, link anchor, keyword density, just everything! i used brett ranking tipps)

i would do everything to get a pr4 instead of my pr6 if i could just remove this stupid links from the guestbooks - it was the biggest mistake i could ever make and i really advice everyone who is playing with guestbooks not to do it.

i better get a new domain - all my work since august has been destroyed just because i was so stupid to sign guestbooks :(

Namaste

12:34 pm on Jan 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Duplicate content algo on different sites is too complex and if I was the search engine, I would very careful before implementing it.

Now I am convinced that Google has upped the weightage of the incoming links page content.

[edited by: Namaste at 12:41 pm (utc) on Jan. 6, 2003]

HuhuFruFru

12:35 pm on Jan 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



no the content is 100% different, just the design is the same.

europeforvisitors

1:19 pm on Jan 6, 2003 (gmt 0)



no the content is 100% different, just the design is the same.

In that case, aren't you comparing apples and oranges?

instand1

4:28 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Maybe this experience is on topic here: We got three incoming link from a site with PR6. Because of that our PR increased to PR5. BUT: The ranking did not improve. The results are the same for all keywords, even for those in the link text (anchor text). Some keywords have strong competition (250.000 pages in google) some 5000, some 50.000.

chiyo

7:39 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



instand. the reason could be because you just tripped over the absolute 5.0 number. You could have been 4.999 before and 5.0001 after. The PR change may look significant to you, but in reality could be insignificant. Google only gives whole numbers, not fractions.

Namaste

10:12 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



makes sense

MOOSBerlin

10:26 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Namaste: I have looked at his site and I agree with him, there is an extra factor that has gone into his rankings. This is a new factor, becuase he states that his rankings were FINE prior to the lastest google update. What we have to try and discover here, is what this new factor is!

I also believe it is theming of content of pages from which a page receives links, the theming of content now is a very important factor!

Marcia

10:51 pm on Jan 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>>Some keywords have strong competition (250.000 pages in google) some 5000, some 50.000.

Just numbers don't always tell how competitive a market is. There can be searches that return 100,000 that are killer competitive, and others that return well over a million pages that aren't. It depends on who's being competed against and whether a lot of the sites are well optimized.

Generally speaking, with those numbers decent optimization can beat higher Page Rank hands down. There's sometimes an assumption that high PR automatically means high rankings and it just isn't always so.

>>theming of content of pages from which a page receives links, the theming of content now is a very important factor!

I think we need to give that serious thought. Maybe it's not to the point of definition as a themes-based engine, but with over 100 factors that go into scoring, remembering what the factors are that go into determining theming can definitely give an edge over relying on PR alone.

Good old-fashioned overall optimization with PR as a plus can make a site less vulnerable to serious fluctuations from minor algo changes.

instand1

8:42 am on Jan 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Marcia:
I agree with all what you said. I mentioned:
>>"Some keywords have strong competition (250.000 pages in google) some 5000, some 50.000"
only to demonstrate that over a variety of 20 or more keyword phrases the results in the ranking were stable.
Chiyo:
You would be right in many cases, but not in this one:
The landing page for the incoming link (and the homepage) has increased PR more than all the other pages on our site. The landing page hat now the same PR as the homepage, no other page has. (no complicated internal linking: before all important pages had the PR of the homepage minus one, other pages minus 2).

This shows: The incoming link from the high PR site has DEFINITELY improved PR substancially. But the Ranking-Positions for all the keyword phrases have NOT improved!

My conclusion is: Higher PR may or may not improve ranking depending on other factors. My guess is: Theme of the site and/or page (from where the link comes) is already one of the 100 factors of Google. (Or: Three links on different pages of a high PR site may be considered link spamming, particularly if there are not many other incoming links.)

Muskie

1:20 am on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"
I would agree that Title seems to be a VERY important factor at the moment. Just look at all the keyword hits in the title of the many low-PR sites that are getting all those Top-10 listings right now!
"

For my employer's index page, I changed the title, and the three keywords we cared about plus our company name (which included one keyword). I also replaced image swaping with div swaping and added the alt text that was missing and our site went from way down, to the first page for for our two keyword search term in all the search engines not just google.

Our title is

blah blah keyword1: keyword2 keyword3

It reads fine in English and looks good in search results. This one change was as clever as I get. (or was allowed to get)

However we aren't selling blue widgets so I don't think there is that much competition for some of the keywords.

Muskie

rfgdxm1

1:56 am on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Competitiveness for keywords depends on your priorities. One of my sites is #1 of 29,600 for one of the 3 critical single keywords I target. I figure if on page 2 likely most people just won't find my site, and ignore it. All done through honest SEO too; although I realize that some consider there is no such animal as honest SEO in this world.

annej

3:10 am on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I'm seeing the search phrase being the title making a big difference. There are three ahead of me with 'widget history' in both. OTOH I have to wonder if my having a more interesting title might still draw more visitors. I'm sitting at 4th.

Anne

chiyo

3:55 am on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



annej.. yep thats one aspect that does not really draw much controversy. A bland boring 3 or 4 word phrase which matches what people would type as a search query into a search engine is, at this time, absolutely essential for good optimization. We are quite pleased that other people (not you!) insist on using clever smarty pants titles. we hope they keep on doing it.

annej

12:46 pm on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Not smarty pantsy but intriguing. ;)
I've always believed the title should invite the reader in.

I don't know how one could test this but I still suspect that an inviting title would be clicked on more than an adjoining bland one.

Anne

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