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The homepages of these penalized sites DIDN'T have PR0, but their PR seemed lower than a typical random sampling of websites.
As many of you know, "themeindex.htm" is the default links page URL of Zeus-generated link directories. But a good number of these "themeindex.htm" pages had nothing to do with Zeus... they were bystander victims of what appears to be a cruel secret penalty.
I can't claim credit for making this observation, but it seemed rather important to bring up for open discussion... so there you have it.
But C-R is reacting with defensiveness and examples that shift the focus to their successes.
Their recent communication to users suggested they could "change the themeindex.html name...if you like". (That's a little too subtle for most people.)
Their newly revised help page guidelines about creating customized directories, also still warns that changing the themeindex name is something to "Do not change...unless you know what you are doing". (Thats not subtle, its just not good advice. I think it could be improved.)
Within this forum thread, some suggest C-R are victims, others suggest they deserve a penalty and add extra criticism. When criticism contains hyperbole, it tends to stimulate defensiveness.
Hopefully C-R and Google can see beyond the criticism and do the right thing, whatever that is.
It is clear that many C-R customers are loyal, trusting and grateful to C-R. I think that most customers would react constructively if C-R sent news about a possible negative consequence of having "themeindex.html" in a URL.
I think that most customers would react constructively if C-R sent news about a possible negative consequence of having "themeindex.html" in a URL.
I would react positively. I did pay for the full product and then for the upgrade early this year. I would like to hear more than defensiveness and hyperbole from C-R. The problem is more severe than themeindex.html, it's that zeus is perceived as (and has become) spam. It is no longer just accidentally associated with spam - it has become spam.
C-R must act immediately to correct their PRODUCT, not the perception of it. That's the main issue they are not confronting at the moment. This is NOT a perception problem. This is an actual problem (actually several problems) with their product which cause it to become a spam engine.
So rather than debating the issue and getting defensive and making little vague documentation changes, C-R needs to immediately let their customers know there is a problem, explain it in English, then as quickly as possible modify their program to address it, then send out free updates to the paying customers.
A few years ago, Johnson and Johnson could have written many press releases claiming that only one bottle of tylenol had cynanide or stating that there wasn't a real problem. Instead, they immediately pulled over a hundred million dollars of product off the shelves and took positive action to correct the PROBLEM. The issue quickly faded away.
Later, Firestone had a problem with it's tires and has spent millions claiming it's not their problem - and the issue seems to come up again and again. If Firestone would say, yes, there is a problem, recall the bad tires, and fix the bad assembly line (or reengineer the tires or whatever), then their issue would quickly fade away.
As it is, I still purchase tylenol. I no longer purchase firestone tires, because I don't trust the company.
so C-R, do the responsible thing - admit the issue, correct it and get on with business. Otherwise, zeus will most likely go the way of FFA pages and the like.
Richard Lowe
a link from a zeus user is worthless in terms of pagerank to the recipient
I'd guess that depends on the pagerank of the Zeus pages. The users who wisely unzeusified their directories appear to be surviving the bloodbath so far.
Echoing the comments of other posters, I'd like to see C-R treat this less like a public relations problem and more like a technical/business problem. I'm sure we can find some examples of non-penalized themeindex pages, but it's clear something is going on. 90+% with PR0 is an epidemic of major proportions, and C-R needs to warn its users and work with Google to resolve this.
Great examples, proves your point very well.
C-R would be wise to do as yours and the others suggestions.
Zeus is flawed plain and simple. While you are looking at the name of the page the problem is really much deeper. Google simply uses the name to quickly identify the Zeus user but the issue is in the template layout including the forced link back to cyber-robotics that in many pro directories is hidden in a layer that is not visible to the viewer. Because David has such a big ego he forces Zeus users to link back to him and he also has secret back door to each Zeus.
Zeus is on its last breath when you compare it to other software such as Arelis it blows Zeus away and you are not stuck with a Google bulls-eye called themeindex.html. Arelis does not have PR disease and it quickly imports Zeus directories. By the way once you import the directories and upload your Page Rank is instantly restored, I have switch over 4 Zeus directories and each one instantly gained normal page rank.
[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 9:57 am (utc) on July 7, 2002]
I'm interested in your comments, and I respect your opinion, since I think you might be one of the first persons to have figured out the themeindex penalty. Can I ask you some followup questions:
- About your 4 link directories and their homepages. Did your homepages also seem to have low PR, and did their PR move higher after you renamed themeindex?
- About the forced link to C-R on each Zeus-created links page. Do you think they were also targetted for a penalty?, or were you just pointing out their potential to be a target mechanism?
[edited by: Marcia at 3:34 pm (utc) on July 7, 2002]
Did your homepages also seem to have low PR,
and did their PR move higher after you renamed themeindex
The PR was 0 but if you have a Zeus change the name and upload it the PR will come back in seconds.
I got tired of fixing the broken links and C-R has known about it for over year he told me he would have to start from scratch and rebuild the whole thing that why his history is relevent.
Since your into verifying everything open up one of the free version templates and near the bottom you will see that you have to choose between 4 ads that link back to c-r these are actually hidden elements and many Pro users were told by C-R to use a layer and include the link back in that and move it say -200px left and -200px top and then it would not show. Google will penalize you for hiding text or links but C-R did not have a way or refused to find a way to eliminated the link.
That's not real PR, it's just a guess that Google makes on new pages.
Richard Lowe
We are concerned with the fact that some of you think we are hiding something from our users about the themeindex.html page.
I have created a page on our web site that addresses this problem and encourage you to check it out.
You will find a link to it on our home page (bottom right) and the support board.
Regards,
Peter
[edited by: Marcia at 2:17 pm (utc) on July 11, 2002]
[edit reason] sig url edit - no sigs per Terms of Service [/edit]
I was hoping this one would find its way into the thread graveyard. Your response above comes almost one month later and it still offers no free solution for your free version users.
What an excellent opportunity Google has provided you to increase your revenue. The only immdediate solution to the problem is to purchase the PRO version so that you can customize your directory. What about the 1,700+ directories that are running the free version?
Its unfortunate that only a very small percentage of your users know what is going on. That statement in itself shows you how many of your users really care about the concept. It was free, it required very little of their time and some of them think that it is bringing them business, and it could be. But, only from those who may stumble upon the directory in their travels. They sure won't find it doing searches at Google, unless they are searching for themeindex. ;)
