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Wouldn't you think the site would at least crack the first few pages in the SERPs? One of my sites is in this exact category, however we cannot crack the first 10 (thats right, 10) pages in G. Could the SERPs be lagging from the recent update?
I don't know, but it seems wrong that it should be soo hard for such a specific site to succeed--doing everything along G-lines. Oh how I long for the old days. This site would be making a ton :)
From reading here I guess it shows all the traits of being in the sandbox and it's just a case of waiting it out.
The penaly for google is not too bad. Hey you are still highly ranked in the search results, but their "algorithm" is a bit more opaque and that suits them fine.
Or do i see shadows?
that's an idea that I first had about 1 1/2 years ago and mentioned it in another thread. There are still moments where I think that might be the case....
Mozart
#1 for allinanchor, #1 for allintext, and #1 for allintitle
Could you tell me where google states that any allin[whatever] search ranks according to that term in [whatever].
What google states is that they just limit the results to those that have that term in that location. They never state that they rank according to that. In fact, to think such a thing would be idiocy when it comes to allintitle.
Or do i see shadows? "
I doubt it. People want the most relevant results, not a SERPS lottery winner...
My feeling is that yes, google ranks you according to title, anchir, url etc without any hassles for those queries.
But for real SERPs, a host of other factors -
age of site
age of page
changes/ fresh content on page
keyword density in relation to allin parameters..
specific deeplinks to the page (like hey, u are no. 1 on all allins, lets see how many ur individual backlinks that page of urs has got!)
now u Allin dudue, lets see how big a site u got. 100 pages? Get outta here. Come back when u got 10,000.
exact_phrase_in_URL? Lets discount you just a bit, shall we?
How many link outs you got? YOu are result 11, and you got linkouts to the first 10? You must be a scrapper site, dude.
I dunno, thousands of things like that, maybe? I think the Allin rankings are just fine. There must be a helluva lotta Allins we got no clue about. What say?
First, "allin" is just an extension of the "in" commands.
allinurl:fred bob
is the same as
inurl:fred inurl:bob
but the big difference is that you can add an actual "ranking term" to the ones with "inurl:".
inurl:fred inurl:bob joe
which according to google will do a search on "joe" and limit the results to those that have both "fred" and "bob" in the url.
It obviously ranks according to "something", but it is far from conclusive that what is assumed.
The real problem is when you come to "allintitle:". Now, give this some serious thought. How in the hell do you rank a page according to term in the title?
I'm going to be bad and pick a real word. I had dinner down at the harbor, so I will search on [allintitle:harbor]. There are 14,200,000 results. (hopefully they will leave it in because it is a real good example, and I do not have a vested interest in the results)
If they were ranking these results strictly on how they rank on the word "harbor" in their titles, you would expect to find a few mystery pages that just happened to hit the magic combination to rank at the top on how google ranks titles that month.
What do we find?
1. a major company with "harbor" in its name, url and most likely a majority of the anchor text pointing at it. Harbor is the first of 9 words.
2. A National Geographic page about Pearl Harbor. In the URL, and in anchor text. fifth of 7 words.
3. Touchstone pictures official website of the pearl harbor movie. more of the same. Fourth of 7
4. Bar Harbor chamber of commerce site.
5. Commerce department Safe Harbor page.
6. Cold Spring Harbor Laboratories.
7. A PR6 pearl harbor memorial page that someone put together.
8. Boston Harbor Hotel.
9. The IMBD entry for the pearl harbor movie
10. Boston Harbor Cruises.
These are all major sites! How is it that they just happened to rank at the top for something that is supposed to rely *just on the title*?
Sure they all have harbor in their titles, we told google that we wanted that. But they surely aren't ranked according to how well their title meets some mystery google "title" requirement.
Sorry, it doesn't fly. The allin commands are simply filters on the results, just like google says they are. The ranking is done in other ways.
pretty much explains everything!
Well different Databases for each allin... and the main comes from lots of different databases.
When you search for 1 allin your only searching that database?
Ok your number one for all the allins but say they had databases of... age, updated content... backlinks blah and so on!
what you think? or just old mans story :)
#1 for allinanchor, #1 for allintext, and #1 for allintitle...doesnt' ensure that you deserve a #1 in SERPS rankings too. There are many other factors to dictate that.
All I'm about to say is: authority statuspretty much explains everything!
Not everything, but quite a lot. It is only one factor in the algo but a pretty important one all the same.
I worked on a site a couple of years ago in a fairly competitive industry. Once the work was done and links from other authority sites came in (mainly informational sites) the site went to the top of just about every important and relevant keyphrase. I no longer touch the site and haven't for over a year. I see this site as now being one of the authority sites in the industry. This is important as it helps keep it above other newer sites aiming for the top.
On my latest sites I am attempting to apply the same principles of providing the best information and collecting the best inbound links. This should - over time, and the time frame is getting longer - lead to stable high rankings and authority status.
Just my £0.02 :)
"Other than all the complaints about how the allin functions are "broken", there are at least two things that point to tha fact that they simply do not and cannot work the way most people think. "
Where exactly was it said that I believed these things to be "broken"? And to everyone else who reacted with such fervour, where did I say that these commands related at all to how the SERPs actually rank sites?
The answer to both questions is nowhere. I made neither of those statements in my original post and I always love when people here at beloved WebmasterWorld make up points to argue that were never a part of the point in the first place.
My POINT was, what is the reason for these commands if they cannot help a Webmaster see how their efforts are paying off? I mean, do you really see any avg. Joe schmuck using any of these commands when searching for anything? No way. And if these commands can't be used by Webmasters for constructive purposes, well, then I fail to see the point at all.
All I was saying is that it has gotten too hard for legitimate Websites with targeted markets to get anywhere on G these days. And, for everyone who made out like I was saying that I expected these things to be the magic bullet for rankings, obviously I do not. I thought I made clear that the site is well optimized and has an established PR. "Following Gs Lines" I believe I said. All by their book.
Where exactly was it said that I believed these things to be "broken"?
That statement was not directed at you. That statement was about the several times a month that someone seems to post about how either the allin commands are not working right, or the SERPs are broken because they are not ranking high in the SERPs even though they rank high in all the allin searches.
The statement that I directed to you was in my first post.
Could you tell me where google states that any allin[whatever] search ranks according to that term in [whatever].
And to everyone else who reacted with such fervour, where did I say that these commands related at all to how the SERPs actually rank sites?
Uh, how about here?
... but if you have a site with a decent PR, which is #1 for allinanchor, #1 for allintext, and #1 for allintitle... plus your URL is the EXACT phrase you are targeting......Wouldn't you think the site would at least crack the first few pages in the SERPs?
What could you possibly be saying if it is not that they are somehow related. If you don't think they are related, why even make such a statement?
My POINT was, what is the reason for these commands if they cannot help a Webmaster see how their efforts are paying off? I mean, do you really see any avg. Joe schmuck using any of these commands when searching for anything? No way. And if these commands can't be used by Webmasters for constructive purposes, well, then I fail to see the point at all.
Wrongo! They are in there for the advanced searcher who happens to use the advanced search option. Those options were put in to support the options in the form.
My girlfriend is a college research librarian, and she knows more about how to use these search options than I do, and she doesn't have a website.
Google has a lot of reason to supply tools like this to advanced searchers, and very little reason to supply them for webmasters and SEOs.
In other words, you don't have to see the point, Google does.
All I was saying is that it has gotten too hard for legitimate Websites with targeted markets to get anywhere on G these days. And, for everyone who made out like I was saying that I expected these things to be the magic bullet for rankings, obviously I do not. I thought I made clear that the site is well optimized and has an established PR. "Following Gs Lines" I believe I said. All by their book.
Are you saying that you somehow deserve good rankings?
Since you don't want me to amke any more assumptions about what you are implying, please state clearly what you expect from google, and what you expect from us.
Also, PR doesn't mean everything, especially if you are in the 4-6 range. I have PR5 on my own site and get VERY LITTLE traffic from Google :( Do I bother checking allin***? No. What's the point?
If "advanced web searchers" use these commands for research, wouldn't that innately imply that they DO have something to do with relevance to the end user? And if an "advanced searcher" believes that these commands will brign them better results for what they are looking for, then why WOULDN"T G take that as a sign that they SHOULD maybe be a more important when it comes to SERPs?
I am just posing the question, if your contention is that G has these commands for advanced searchers, what are the main results that they provide... dumbed down search results?
I'm sorry Dave, but you are crazy if you think the TYPICAL searcher would even know what the hell "anchor" is, let alone the command "allinanchor".
I never even implied anything about the "TYPICAL searcher" and if you actually paid attention to what I said, you would know that.
I know a lot of searchers who ask google questions like you would for Jeeves: [Where can I find a taxi in seattle?]
Advanced features are just that, ADVANCED. That does not mean that they are there just for webmasters.
And wrap your mind around this for a second.
No need to. I've thought about it far more than you have, and you have not brought up anything new.
If "advanced web searchers" use these commands for research, wouldn't that innately imply that they DO have something to do with relevance to the end user?
Yes it does imply that, and it also does, in fact, have relevence in the results returned when you realize that it is simply a filter. Even as a simple yes/no binary switch, it has geat value
Here is the secret to getting your mind wrapped around the way that it works: Think of the important command to be in*. instead of allin*. Allin is just a shortcut. Then go look at the advanced search form.
And if an "advanced searcher" believes that these commands will brign them better results for what they are looking for, then why WOULDN"T G take that as a sign that they SHOULD maybe be a more important when it comes to SERPs?
But you are simply missing the point by looking at this through a webmaster's blinders. It works beautiflly well as a filter on the results.
Anyway, can you explain to me how it is supposed to rank things on intitle, or inurl when you have millions of pages and an exteremly finite data range?
It simply cannot be done without bringing in a lot lf other data points (like PR)
I am just posing the question, if your contention is that G has these commands for advanced searchers, what are the main results that they provide... dumbed down search results?
No, filtered normal search results based on the main query.
And, btw, don't tell me what I have thought of and how much more you have already thought of it. Just because you have 1600+ posts doesnt mean you know more or less, it just means I try to work more than I post. I was gonna call my mom to say she should buy some stupid shoes for her poodle on your site, but forget it! ;)
That is exactly my point Metro, so what then is the point of having them if not for op purposes? I am just curious, G can do what they want, it just doesnt seem to make sense in the least.
For advanced searchers. Of course the know that 99.9% of searchers will never use them, just like most people only use about 3% of the functionality of their spreadsheets.
The reason to have them is to appeal to those power searchers that influence others and give them their reputation. it is the same logic as car companies running NASCAR teams.
And, btw, don't tell me what I have thought of and how much more you have already thought of it. Just because you have 1600+ posts doesnt mean you know more or less, it just means I try to work more than I post.
But I understand why and how it works and you are still confused about it. I have also been pointing this out to people for well over a year.
Either you have been sitting around steaming about this for a really long time before you posted, or I was correct in my assessment.
I was gonna call my mom to say she should buy some stupid shoes for her poodle on your site, but forget it!
Uh, I think you would only annoy your mom. The site you are talking about doesn't sell anything, it is a review site.
You really should research your spite better.
No disrespect meant BennyBlanco, but this last thought suggests that you need to read...ummm...a lot more in here.
A wide variety of explanations come to mind as to why you're not ranking, but beyond them all, doing well in the measures you note in your first post is only part of what it took to rank well in the SERP's two or three years ago, if ever.
I don't think I have looked at the allin commands in about two years because even two years ago, no one in here could explain to me precisely what they meant, and the more I poked the more clear it became that their usefulness was more mythologic than real.
Basically, a year ago I took them to mean that "here's how my site might be doing IF there were no filters, penalties, etc." :-)
These days, IF they mean anything at all, it's not relevant to ranking well in the SERP's. If anything what surprises me is that anyone even discusses them anymore.
[edited by: caveman at 1:37 am (utc) on Oct. 13, 2004]
[edited by: BennyBlanco at 1:48 am (utc) on Oct. 13, 2004]
Yes... unless the site has a problem. Two most common problems are lag time or spam penalties.
All their is to it is those allin commands have their own algorithms. What they are doesn't really matter. What matters is if you are ranking well for these but blow chunks in the main serps, you have a problem. The problem may be of your design (spamminess) or it may be Google weirdness (lagtime) or it could be some other problem.
