Forum Moderators: open
Sure, it pisses me off to see good jobs going offshore, but on the flip side we're all residents of the same planet and have wants and needs for ourselves and our families, no matter which side of globe we live on, and we all play a role in the well-being of worldwide commerce.
Think outside the USofA box and maybe we can step back and see that what's good for India, or anywhere else on the globe, is good for us in one way or another.
Just call it offshoring and all arguement on that petty, semantic front will stop.
I am a graduate of IIT and my experience is quite different from your perception, probably formed from reading/watching media reports.
I guessed that from your name :)
As about the perceptions ... U cannot deny the hell through which a person has to go through just to qualify for an IIT. And it does select the top brains in the country (untill you go into the murkier issue of reservation policies.)
Which IIT were you from btw?
I agree... that is exactly why we need more localization not globalization.
Don't you think its too late now? The process for globalization (at least in my country has started 13 years ago). Now we again revert back to localization?
Until there is a system of fair trade we should not be involved in the current system of free trade.
I think that is what WTO is doing right now?
Americans want (and mostly get) full access to markets in other countries
free trade in north america was an invention of
the americans. mexico and canada were bludgeoned
into acceptance. no one on the street thought it
was a good idea, but it made fantastic photo-ops
for the politicians. now the pigeons have come
home to roost. when a topic becomes frequent
on cnn, you know the general population is
taking notice.
I agree with you.
In my last job in Berkeley (California), was paid far less than a typical fresh graduate while made to work 60+ hours per week while Caucasian colleagues hardly showed up for work. Currently unemployed.
Reality check. ;)
So they shouldn't try to hire great people, shouldn't grow the business and shouldn't potentially create more jobs worldwide (including the US)?
Shame on you Google!
I want a congressional inquiry immediately!
I think AV has their semantics [altavista.com] working a little better than google.
[edited by: john316 at 9:57 pm (utc) on Dec. 13, 2003]
The way to get Indians into the top ranks of a company is for them to start the company. The same goes for any other group that complains about that. It really isn't all about discrimination.
As for the lack of diversity, that is just the way it is in many fields. The vast majority of system level programmers in the USA are white males. Women generally aren't interested, and most ethnic groups seem to be drawn to other areas of programming as well.
They also draw from the top universities, especially stanford, where the majority of the student body are from the more privileged classes.
The diversity has improved a lot in the last couple of decades, but it is still going to take quite a bit of time before it levels out.
My point is there's still plenty of good pickins here, especially given the current widespread unemployment rates.
[edited by: mattdwells at 10:02 pm (utc) on Dec. 13, 2003]
So they shouldn't try to hire great people, shouldn't grow the business and shouldn't potentially create more jobs worldwide (including the US)?Shame on you Google!
I want a congressional inquiry immediately!
It's bigger than google. The fact that google is now offshoring/outsourcing is a symptom of a the problem of multinational corporations forcing the working class into international competition based on pricing.
This doesn't sound so bad on the surface, but it will ultimately only benefit those doing the employing not the employee. This is going to eventually downwardly for Americans equalize wages internationally and skyrocket profits for those corps and the major shareholders in those companies. The wage gap between the working class and the coporate heads is going to be unfathomable.
Do you truely believe they went there just to save cost - how much they can save on 100 Engineeers?...Even if you take the high end of 100k/engineer , its just 10 Million USD . Do you truely think that the hottest Internet company which is valued at a 20 billion USD went through all those government red tape procedures to setup a indian subsidiary to save a pesky 10 Million - me thinks not!
Its basic supply chain concept - "be close to the resource supply" .
Texaco has middleast presence because Oil is abundant there ... An Software company goes to India because its main raw material (programmers) is available abundant in Indian Mines :)
I think there's about as many or more software engineers available here in the U.S. than India. And a lot of them are immigrants from India anyhow, and very talented. How many hundreds of thousands of H1-B visas were granted in the last few years? How many are unemployed? That's why I think the decision was based on cost. It's probably the primary reason many corporations offshore to India, although not all will admit it directly.
But just for the record I would have liked a sales office over here than a research centre :)
In India, because there is chance to make money by going for software industry, either at home or abroad, vast majority of the talented Indians go for these jobs regardless of their natural talents. Most of my classmates from IITs - which is the most selective school in India - regardless of their majors whether it was mechanical engineering or material sciences, are currently writing programs for some American company, either in India or abroad.
On the whole, if one goes to India, one will find that all other branches of human achievement has suffered a lot. A person who could be a painter and paint really nicely is most probably writing software for a company in Bangalore. Looks like India is doomed and will have an elite class of about 5 million or so who will be writing software for companies like Google while the rest of the country goes to dogs.
Google's founders and investors will do well, though, while talking loudly about how they love their work and are not in it for the money.
I do not think you are alone. There seems to be an anti-globalization movement going on, to, as you said, protect
regional biodiversity and cultural identity.
I would suspect that Google's research scientists and engineers in California would not be too excited about this move, either, if they valued their jobs.
So Google controls this forum after all. Well, so much for freedom of speech.
And yes, JasonHamilton, you are exactly right: we spoke ill of Google and got censored. This is living proof.
They changed the title on me. Originally I entitled this thread: "Google Outsourcing R&D to India" and GoogleGuy probably changed, or had it changed, to "Google Opens R&D Lab in India".
So Google controls this forum after all. Well, so much for freedom of speech.
I had nothing to do with it, mattdwells. I rarely, if ever, bug the mods about stuff like that (maybe two titles in two years). Given the amount of posts where people have pointed out that it's not outsourcing (including the original article), perhaps one of the mods thought that "opens an R&D lab" was a more accurate title. But I had nothing to do with it.
They also draw from the top universities, especially stanford, where the majority of the student body are from the more privileged classes.
Not too far from Palo Alto, is UC Berkeley where Asian-Americans seem to dominate technical fields at undergraduate level at the famous research university. While Google can go all the way to India - about 180 degrees from here - to find the 'best' engineers, couldn't it hire these Asian-Americans who are about 30 miles far from Palo Alto?
This is a discussion about Information Technology jobs.
That is, after all, exactly what the article is about. Google hiring people in India.
If no discussion on that was wanted then why was the article headlined in the first place?
I am confused.
What's your definition of "politics"?
[edited by: mattdwells at 12:35 am (utc) on Dec. 14, 2003]
Having said that Google is becoming a public corporation (soon) with a primary responsibility to it's shareholders, not to the citizens of the USA (in general), nor the USA government, nor Webmasters. If it can get cheaper labor with the necessary quality, then good for them (within reason -- if they found some loopholes to screw the USA out of taxes that would be a different story).
I know small entrepeneurs who paid foreign programmers 20% of what it would have cost for Americans. They could not have done the job without less expensive programming. Granted the quality was slightly less and needed some oversight but it was still doable. Good for the foreign programmers. It keeps things interesting.
Besides as an American I would rather let them take care of some of these other labor-intensive tasks (manual algos and checking websites) while I concentrate on more interesting items.
Unimportant:
"Google Outsources R&D to India"
Gotta keep tabs on that -foo -foo2 switch!
And bad for workers.
