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The same programme also commented on the irrelevance of results returned by just typing in keywords. Pointing out most sites returned for their search of "shelving" were comparison shopping sites, plus an educational site.
They also encouraged viewers to use the advanced search facility or to put search terms in quotes, which I have noticed also obviates the new filter.
The item was accompanied by sob stories from small co's and an expert from a UK Internet magazine stating the purpose was to reduce the amount of spam in searches.
IMHO, I think that, while Google's efforts are valiant, the results are a miserable failure - at least in the areas I monitor. In trying to kick out the spam, which wasn't such a problem anyway, they just got rid of all the most relevant matches! And the pages from certain top price comparison sites are still there - even when they only say "your search for widgets didn't return any matches.... are you interested in oozamewotsits instead?"!
Regards,
Suggy
-------------------------
Now who was it that said Update Florida would not make the mainstream news?
And who was it that said Infoseek would always be a great search engine?
Oh, also, that Reuters Google article was in the top 20 most emailed articles on Yahoo News....that's why I saw it!
>> Here's another negative article... <<
I think this sort of item is illustrative more than definitive. It is the neutered version of the verbal message on the streets. The written word is almost always less hostile than the spoken one, especially through organs like the BBC, and if Google isn't concerned with that it should be.
The other interesting facet of this is that much of the webmaster community is now clearly driving the message outwards. I must have seen half a dozen different items today that were fostered by webmasters, webmasters that don't exactly have a nice fuzzy feeling towards Google.
This is new, and it shows both the power of webmasters (who by their nature are good at getting messages over: it's what they do!) and their feelings on this matter. Again, it's something that Google underestimates at its peril.
I certainly don't expect results overnight, but it seems pretty clear that the attitudes of a key group of opinion formers have changed. Google is not a darling anymore, it is now seen by many as a hostile betrayer. In some respects, and rather ironically, it could be argued that Google's free ride is now over!
What goes round comes round plexy boys.
Google's free ride is now over
We don't hear much from you now, but the above quote is eloquent as ever. You're clearly in the UK (quoting The Guardian as Gruaniad), but it will be difficult for anyone to accuse the BBC of bias in this particular case. I'm now quite proud of the BBC because (off topic) I'm not sure they have been entirely unbiased regarding reporting of the Iraq 'war'.
But your quote above mirrors similar quotes suggesting that the "Webmasters free ride is over"
As such, some balance, with the help of the BBC, is now restored.
[edited by: superscript at 9:23 pm (utc) on Dec. 4, 2003]
I live in a US metro area of 2 million+ people, so if the story gets picked up, there would be good exposure. If enough people do this, then google might get a reasonable size feedback forum on what people think of the new results.
And hey, if everyone else loves the new SERPs, then I guess that's that. But if not, then maybe google will take notice and continue to make changes (or unmake changes :)
"Google is not broken." and the other to say
"Technical searches on google are working just fine."
When I sent more details to them, they never came back so it looks like all 58,000+ now agree that there is a serious flaw in the algo. regarding technology related searches.
Has this problem been slashdotted yet?
Can I just point out that what you are doing by searching for -nonesensestring is to find sites that do not include that nonesense string but do contain the other words that you put in your search.
I think the purpose of using the -nonsense is remove the nonsense from the current serps.
The global economic impact will surely reach millions and possiby tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars, Euro's, Pounds, etc...
If someone goes online to buy a blue widget, they are going to buy a blue widget. The only question is, from where. Company ABC may not get the sale, but Company XYZ will. The surfer may have to follow link from a directory or click on Adwords to find it, but any determined shopper will find what they want to buy.
You make it sound as if all spending will come to a halt because of the Google update and I just dont see that happening in the least bit.
[edited by: mrbrad at 10:47 pm (utc) on Dec. 4, 2003]
Sigh. Several weeks ago I asked what your sites were so I could check it out for you, Napoleon, and you wouldn't tell me. :)
I think you're wrong. It's not simply a matter of a person moving on to another vendor. I think a certain number of people will have a harder time finding what they want and will simply buy the product at the local mall or storefront.
I think that sales will still occur just not in the volume they do now. That volume means revenue and profit. Less volume = less profit....
However, that's only part of the story. What about the people who are being displaced? The people who run these sites? The people who MAKE THEIR LIVING on these sites? They spend money right? They were looking to spend money on Christmas presents, buy services, fuel, pay mortgages, pay rent, etc.. They will now have less money (in some cases no money)to spend. Add that to the less volume equation... the global impact could be HUGE... sure not maybe in relation to to the GDP of most countries, but still a very large number....
most people seem to think a combination of factors. For me two seem to be undeniable. Google is at war with seo, and also is trying to filter for links that are real votes and not another prt of seo. I see spam reduction as way down the list of aims.
I could agree with you some what if a Google search for the blue widget I want to buy returned absolutely no relevant results for several pages. However that is not the case here.
There may not be as many relevant results for commercial searches on each page as there was before Florida, but there are still relevant sites returned. As an online shopper I may be choosing from 3 sites to buy my widget from instead of 6 ... but at least there are still choices to be made.
As for the Ma and Pa shop online that lost their sales ... hey thats life ... and that how this economy works. Relying on free traffic from Google to keep yourself in business is a flawed marketing plan from day 1. Some lessons have to be learned the hard way.
Sure there has:
[forbes.com...]
Wayne Rosing, vice president of engineering at Google, said the change is part of the Silicon Valley-based company's efforts to provide high-quality search results."This particular change affected more people, but our testing shows there was a significant quality improvement for our users," said Rosing.
> harder time finding what they want and will
Last figure I heard, was less than 1/5th of the searches on google were product/ecom/purchase based searches.
because i only get a sensible serps if i add .cgi to it and add -waffle.cgi, just using -waffle doesnt return old serps.
responding to the symptom rather than the cause,
a typical enterprise move ...
you're gonna get the serps we want whether you like it or not
Last figure I heard, was less than 1/5th of the searches on google were product/ecom/purchase based searches.
That figure may be correct, but the same people who do non-commercial searches also carry out a large majority of those product/ecom/purchase based searches. Google used to be the best place to find any type of web site, but unfortunately that is no longer true.
Last figure I heard, was less than 1/5th of the searches on google were product/ecom/purchase based searches.I'm guessing product/ecom/purchase does not include travel, or searching for information on travel destinations.
GG did you get a chance to see the report I sent. I referenced my handle and yours.
Maybe we aren't seeing the same thing out there. I'm not seeing a few places where maybe a few sites are gone. I'm seeing many places where small ecommerce sites are either gone, replaced by huge vendors or are dominated by spam. I think that'll drive some searchers to buy from a catalog...
As for ma & pa... ma & pa drive the economy my friend. Hear of company called Walmart? Walmart is one of many companies that cater to those poeple whom you so easily discard, are they successful? More of the huddled masses, even online, than you may imagine..... when ma & pa get hurt... we all get hurt...
The issue isn't that you can't put all your eggs in one basket. The issue is that many good sites, those that follow the rules, those that came to depend on the fact that their "white hat" behavior would be rewarded by at least being in the game... were completely wiped out.
Who cares right? Stomp em', thats life right? Beware my friend, that attitude does not fare well with the masses...
Why does Google now need a BBC customer affairs spokeswoman to explain how to use Google?
<self edit: bold text removed - looked like shouting :) >
[edited by: superscript at 12:24 am (utc) on Dec. 5, 2003]
This is one of those area's that Google could improve.
I think the press will deliver the message.... but I don't think Google is listening. I think Google believes that the Florida update is good for their users... and that's that...
Its been said often in these forums that if you build your sites correctly and have good content you will do well, the recent update goes one step further in that it delivers what some may consider unusual results, very brave by Google, but the advice is still true, time will tell.
As an SEO this thing is great, Google offers us a way to get more traffic to our sites, my only fear is that the odd bad result served up may point surfers to other search engines but in the meantime I'll just enjoy it while it lasts.
I can always count on someone like yourself turning up. Yes, my site is also well designed, and yes, now the customers are moving elsewhere / being trained (?) my sales are the same.
But the SERPs are still poor.
But do you know what really concerns me - I think my sales are the same because my competitors are spending a fortune on Adwords, and once my potential customers have seen what is on offer on their Adword searches, they are using a more specific search. And then they find my specialist site - and buy from me.
Result? Time wasted on searches, lots of money wasted by my competitors, same sales for me.
It was much easier for all concerned when I was in the top 5 results.
Are a few Ma an Pa shops gonna feel the pain from this one? ... sure they will, I'll give you that. Will it be enough to have a huge rippling effect on the economy as you described earlier? ... Highly unlikely!
That fact is, money is still flowing from one pocket to another.
Hopefully the Ma and Pa shop feeling the pain will lick their wounds and formulate a new marketing plan that doesnt rely on something with no guarantees and lots of uncertainty.
Thanks for the healthy debate. You make some good points that I cant totally disagree with, but I think your original premise is exaggerated.
Regards
[nypost.com...]
Thank you for your detailed and considered economic analysis of 'Ma and Pa' shops. Very Keynesian. This particular Ma & Pa shop turns over several million, and employs a dozen people.
[edited by: superscript at 12:26 am (utc) on Dec. 5, 2003]
Build more sites, and you will do well.
ps. SERPS change frequently be prepared and don't be a bleater
I've always thought of Google's ranking economics more Hayek than Keynes, even more so now. If those two were still alive be interesting as to what they would make of Google's cyber economy!
Baloney. Nothing about florida changes seo in the least. At war with stuff that violates their guidelines, sure. At war with optimizing a website, heck no. All the things they suggest, and all seo within the rules is still the road to success.
<standard rant>
If you have good content, you should look at Google as partner and work to present the good content as best as you can. Google appreciates and rewards that.
</standard rant>
"GoogleGuy,
Why don't you extend that courtesy to all of us please?"
He's only done that in fifteen to twenty posts here!
