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Speaking from personal experience, I have a couple of "clean" sites that went down the tubes this last update. I also have a few "not-so-clean" sites that are doing fine--in fact, better than ever.
Nobody really seems to be able to figure out the real algo changes Google made during the Florida update. I personally suspect the keyword text in links pointing to your site has something to do with it, but it's not the whole story.
The fact is, so many clean sites are getting penalized now, that SEO's don't know what to do... and when we don't know what to do, we experiment. Experimentation inevitably takes some of us down the road of "black-hat" optimization.
My point is that folks at Google may believe they have reduced the amount of spammy sites in their index, but my assertion is that this is only temporary. New, even spammier sites are going to be popping up like mushrooms!
Better yet, create a dynamic BS directory that creates pages from the query terms and let it fly. :)
With all the upcoming changes in the search space, there is no way I'm going to start dramatically altering pages that are doing well in Ink/Teoma/Fast/AV in order to satisfy Google.
If they feel that quality results means that they must return a completely different set of results than their competitors, then I'll just cloak all content to Google so I can tweak it to match their rediculous filter.
"Remember, a Jedi’s strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."
-Yoda
;)
Dave
-YodaMy best friend called me Yoda when we were in high school. Partly cuz I always knew what he was gonna do next, and partly cuz one of my thumbs is yoda like for some reason.
Personally, I don't think cloaking is the key. I just took a hard look at the top two sites (4 listings) for the important searches related to my site. It seems cross linking a network of sites from every page is now back in vogue. The sour cream rises to the top.
There are competitive search queries (high adwords spending) for which Serps have been "cleaned" but for which some commercial sites still rank high in Google as well as the other search engines. I'm all for going down that road of analysis.
Whatever the colour of your cloak, aren't you still influenced by off-page factors?
I guess he means giving a bigger picture to G and focussed content to Ink and others.
there is no way I'm going to start dramatically altering pages that are doing well in Ink/Teoma/Fast/AV in order to satisfy Google.
This is a real concern. Most SEO's would be in a dilemma over how to handle this. Untill now there was a way in which we could satisfy major engines.
I would not be surprised if overall cloaking popularity increases.
This has been posited elsewhere on the boards, and GoogleGuy's silence on the subject of blackhats now having the power to sink competitors has been ominous.
Now, there is some very good advice.
"Better yet, create a dynamic BS directory that creates pages from the query terms and let it fly. :)"
The more I read about this, the more I search, the more I am convinced that Google have lost the ****ing plot. :(
Delete the 1000's of posts about Florida and just read this. Sums it up.
With all the upcoming changes in the search space, there is no way I'm going to start dramatically altering pages that are doing well in Ink/Teoma/Fast/AV in order to satisfy Google.
Amen, it's a bitter pill to swallow after spending 12 months cleaning up sites so not to trip googles filters, only to be hit hard on every E-commerce site we manage, yet across every other search engine we rank it the top 3, and then been out placed by a few newspaper reports and amazon, I afraid that google will become a a cloaking SE only. I know we have had to switch two Informational only sites onto a redirect for the time being.
Google hasn't really left any other option, I like the guys at google and generally feel bad, but my gut feeling is that a lot of webmasters will now try cloaking as the easier option to rank in all the search engines.
DaveN
IMO Google have not only shot themselves in the foot, but have shot their IPO in the foot too.
As a monopoly Google has a responsibility.
As a monopoly Google has a responsibility.
Google does not have a monopoly so much as they have Mind Share.
Owning the market through Mind Share
Mind share is a situation where a brand becomes so identified with the activity or industry that the consumer by default thinks of the brand itself.
When you cut your finger you put on a Band Aid, and when you blow your nose you reach for a Kleenex. And for many people, to search is to Google.
Mind Share can be lost
Years ago, to go on the internet was synonymous with going on AOL- AOL had Mind Share. Today AOL no longer has that hold and AOL is just another ISP, because Mind Share can be lost.
I recently experienced this phenomenom first hand after I installed the AltaVista Toolbar and after experiencing the amazingly convenient tools AV offers, I realized that Mind Share had had such a hold on me that it had prevented me from enjoying other tools.
It was a strangely liberating experience, like driving on the left hand side of the road in the United States.
[edited by: martinibuster at 6:18 pm (utc) on Dec. 4, 2003]
It was a strangely liberating experience, like driving on the left hand side of the road in the United States.I find that experience can be be rather, well, incarcerating.;)
- deliver any current pages that rank well in other search engines to those search engines.
As much as I hate to admit it, cloaking may the viable means of addressing the new Google and the other search engines at the same time.
Another good way (one that I'm planning) is to change jobs and get the heck outta Dodge -- let some other poor sucker explain to management what Google is doing.
:rofl:
Well... I have to say, the more I learn about search engines and optimization for them, the less I like Google. Very sad.
I think the problem here is that Google KNOWS it has responsibility, and is taking it a bit too seriously, in a direction most webmasters aren't willing for it to go. They've changed a lot of things with Florida, and while I don't know that they inteded to shut down such a tremendous number of Mom And Pop businesses while driving the rest of the whitehats to cloaking and spamming, I do know that whatever they're doing, they're not doing on a lark. They probably still believe that they're crusading against the misuse of search.
I don't know; there are a lot of very bitter people, and a lot of them are posting under the handles of people I've come to think of as honest, hardworking people. I find that upsetting. It's not just beginners whining that they're so totally going to boycott Google and become spammers.
I'm also seeing a lot of experts reduced to repeating the same banal reassurances. They don't really know what to do either. So, yes, to answer the original question-- I can see a whole lot more reason to spam now than I could before. Whether more people will, I can't say, but I have to admit I always used to think spamming was lazy and irresponsible-- and I don't quite feel that way anymore.
Well, with these latest changes, our profits from certain high quality content sites has gone down. So what is the result? Creating NEW sites that might just break a few rules... or at least be borderline. I mean what the hell! Many of the new SERPs are rubbish, and I know of at least 8 new borderline grayhat sites that are popping up because of the florida update (from myself and friends).
There's a difference between google tweaking their algo to minimize spammy sites, and what actually happened. What actually happened is completely wrong and needs to be fixed. Until that day comes, grayhats will be emerging everywhere.
Nah. I'll reaffirm the statement that webmasters can't really sabotage other people's sites--that wouldn't be fair. People who believe that are barking up the wrong tree.
lol!
They now have a whole new Army of cloakers, most likely the number of cloaking sites will increase 100 fold.
Searchers will buy locally, internet companies will go out of business. A lynch mob will show up at the Googleplex. Google will loose the 10 billion in new money from the IPO in less then 6 months. A new phrase will be coined, "you Googled me".
But most certainly no one will ever trust these words "make your site for the user"
They went too far with this latest algo, and it would be perfectly fair for them to modify it a bit...not only fair, but logical.
When the new links I got for my competitors with the keywords in them show up, they are gone!
Thats a MAJOR MAJOR part of Florida, its actually TOO obvious, so you take your competitor whos having a field day because he didnt put keywords in the few links they he had, and you give him a few new links with the keywords in them(on fresh botted links pages) and hes gone. All ready did this and it works.
