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Let's say I am able to purchase a better url, like simply widgets.com.
Thus, I want to use widgets.com as my new site. (same site, new url)
Can I simply put a 301 permanent redirect from my old site, widgets--widgets-more.com AND get credit for all of the backlinks to my new site? If necessary, I would just leave my 301 and the old domain active, so google doesn't remove backlinks as an expired domain.
what do you think?
The error page which then says "we have moved to xyz.com with that being the only link". This should allow you to retain your old PR and transfer some over to the new site.
What do the more knowledgable folks think?
Does the original site loose its PR over time when you 301 it to the new site?
Yes. It will drop completely. But expect a couple of weeks when only the index page of the new domain will appear (ranked very bad, one could say not at all), until Google figures it out (maybe a worst case scenario, but it happens Then the new pages will appear and inherit all backlinks and PR.
That's interesting, sounds just like what's happening to my site right now. Are you sure about this, any idea how long it lasts? For the past 5-8 weeks (since I 301'd the other domain) I've only had PR on the home page and nowhere else...I was starting to think there might be a penalty or something.
See post #6 of this thread: Site change of URL [webmasterworld.com]
Yes it will work. Yes it takes a couple of weeks.
Do it like the post says though, the 404's might harm you (sorry shrirch) - these are catched by the example rewrite in the post mentioned above, as all URL's on the old domain are simply pointed to the same path at the new domain.
/claus
Backlinks can show for both the same, but eventually they won't both end up with PR - just the one that's redirected to.
And in_fact I'm not so sure, even though the backlinks may show for both, that the site that's getting redirected TO is getting PR transferred to it from the links pointing to the redirected domain, even though the backlinks show up.
And in_fact I'm not so sure, ... that the site that's getting redirected TO is getting PR transferred to it from the links pointing to the redirected domain
With the last domain I moved with 301 I'm pretty sure, because it had no backlinks at all, now it is Top10 for the desired keyword and there is even TPR shown.
RedirectMatch permanent /(.*) [example.tld...]
Why? It just looks simpler :)
It will drop completely. But expect a couple of weeks when only the index page of the new domain will appear (ranked very bad, one could say not at all), until Google figures it out
nah .. it wont. With plenty of backlinks and a current domain there is no reason why a site thats been abandoned should loose its PR.
404's might harm you
Harm who? 404 is a fairly valid code which can point to a page that says "sorry ... we've moved".
The point I'm trying to make is .. old domains have PR which will outlast most algorithms that google might program in. Lets face it .. significant %ages of dmoz and yahoo are never updated and neither are most backlinks.
This is different from expired domains... there is no algorithm that I can think of, for current domains which have been abandoned.
nah .. it wont.
My last site moved via 301 to another location dropped completely from the Google index. That's what 301 is for. It says "the new URL is now responsible for this" and Google transforms all backlinks to the old URL into backlinks to the new URL.
Have you ever used a 301?
Harm who? 404 is a fairly valid code
Weren't there some posts here on how many users don't click further, instead just close the window when confronted with a 404?
When searching for something on Google I often click away 404s instantly without bothering whether they have good stuff on the new page.
Yes, all I am saying is that one can intelligently preseve the old domain.
Anyways, what I've done works for me perhaps it doesnt work for others.
Excuse me for playing contrarian here.
Perhaps not for affiliate sites... for well established brand name sites they will.
Try a 404 page on webmasterworld and a ton of other websites I could point out. It really depends on what the user was searching for, and their level of paranoia towards the search.
You are right about the 404, it highly depends on what the users search for and which site is presenting it.
You've got a site with say 20,000 pages and 100 inbound links and PR5.
You figure for various reasons you want to move to a different domain.
Conventional wisdom would say .. move everything to the new domain and 30x it and have google spider the new domain and assume PR passes on.
The contrarian approach that I have is 404 19,999 pages with the 404 error document pointing to an index page which has 1 or 2 outbound links.
Now, you have a PR 5 page pointing to your new domain and passing on a PR4 to it. (Yes, I strongly belive if you have a high X you can pass on a high X-1 to it).
Of the 100+ domains you have pointing to the original domain, you'll find that 90% of them are not going to bother updating their pages / sites again .. and you'll continue to maintain PR on the old site.
You may be able to use the old site to pass on a PR4 to some more sites... :)
Your luck may vary. Its worked for me and I have nothing to hide ..
What you said makes sense. But it brings up another question. I agree that 99% of the original link partners for the original domain will not update their links to the new url.
So if you 301 the old domain to the new domain, people say that your new url will get link credit/PR transferred over. I can see this would work as long as the 301 of the old domain is active. But if you were to retire your old domain OR let it expire, how would google associate the original backlinks to your new domain? (when the original links still point to your old domain)
Whether your solution is a 404 like you do, or a 301, don't you have to keep either solution active on the old domain in order to retain links for the long term?
Such a page will not pass on anything to anything else, it will be deleted. The reason you have seen some success with your approach is that you keep your index page up with a link to your new domain. It is the old index page on the no longer relevant domain that works, it has nothing to do with the other pages that shows a 404. A "301 Permanent Redirect" header is the only right way to do it.
>> don't you have to keep either solution active on the old domain in order to retain links for the long term?
If you believe that nobody updates their links, then you should keep any solution active forever and ever. Then again, if you have that belief, you should not change your domain in the first place.
One month should be enough for the search engines to figure out that your pages have relocated if you use a 301 Permanent Redirect. You might want to wait an additional period for others to catch up. After that you can delete the old domain completely.
Imho, it is better to delete the unused domain completely in stead of filling up yet another web property with another useless redirecting page. This will also force people linking to you to update their links - they will tend not to, as long as they don't have to. And those that don't most likely have a set of stale links, which is of little value to anyone.
If you can't really find anything useful to do with it, and you are not able to discard it, just take down the content and leave a 301 redirect as the only thing on the domain.
You can also point the DNS for the old domain to the new IP, but then you will have to make the 301 anyway, it will just have to be on your new server in stead. This might be better if you have changed host, as then you will not have to pay two hosting charges.
/claus
Folks, just don't EVER make the mistake of leaving content on the old pages, setting up a 301 to a new site location, forgetting all about it, then moving the whole original site to another server and forgetting to put that 301 up in .htaccess on the new server. Get those old pages OFF.
Google had no problem, but that careless oversight lost me a lucrative #1 MSN listing for a site that converted quite nicely, with the MSN traffic giving most of the sales, even with about the same rankings all over. Inktomi apparently didn't take to it too kindly, even though it was just a dumb blunder.
Yes. This works if you change hosts, or if you keep the same host and just change your domain name, but you must have a dedicated IP. If you're on a shared IP your host will have to get involved, as it must be set up in the config files - some hosts can do it, others can not (or will not).
Let's assume that (as in br33526's case) you have a new domain that you want to point to exactly the same website, with the only change being the new domain name (and of course the layout changes that follow from the shift). If you are satisified with your host, you can just point the new domain to the same IP as the old domain (using a DNS A record), and then employ a rewrite condition like this in the root folder .htaccess file:
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^(www\.)?old-domain\.com
RewriteRule (.*) http://new-domain.com/$1 [R=301,L]If you are changing hosts, set up your new site at the new host (copy the site and change the logo/layout). Then, include the above in the .htaccess on the new domain, and change the DNS settings so the old domain points to the same IP as the new. After the change have propagated, plainly delete the old website and terminate the old hosting contract.
Of course, in order to do this, you must have a control panel, a DNS service for your domains, or some other means of setting up the A record so that the two domains point to one IP. Some hosts and registrars can also do this for you, even though they do not provide control panels, and some hosts even have terms of service that forbids such practice - no two hosts seem to do these things the same way.
/claus
It seems that Google is now very fast to pick up changes from one host to another (shift of IP, not domain name).
