Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.196.208.6

Forum Moderators: open

Message Too Old, No Replies

Google backlink counts are way off

     
4:03 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Apr 6, 2003
posts:48
votes: 0


Am I the only one who has a site that should show about 4 times as many backlinks as it gets credit for in Google?

For as much importance as G places on backlinks for SERPS you would think they would do a better job in finding them.

Alltheweb shows all my backlinks and then some I didnt even know I had. How is it that ATW can do this and Google cant?

In the last G update my backlink count went down?! Even as I add more and more every day.

Am I doing something wrong or is this happening to other webmasters as well?

5:24 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:June 26, 2000
posts:2176
votes: 0


You are making the assumption that because Google doesn't show them means that they didn't find them or they don't count. That is a pretty big assumption.
6:02 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 4, 2002
posts:1958
votes: 0


Google only shows a small subset of your backward links, and it updates them on a very delayed schedule. Some claim that they don't show links that are below a PR4, but I have not personally verified.
6:09 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:May 22, 2003
posts:278
votes: 0


Google only shows a small subset of your backward links, and it updates them on a very delayed schedule. Some claim that they don't show links that are below a PR4, but I have not personally verified.

not true, i have seen sites in backlinks for months which have PR0

6:13 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 1, 2002
posts:1834
votes: 0


not true, i have seen sites in backlinks for months which have PR0

Or, you have been witness to the infamous "broken tool bar."

WBF

6:43 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 1, 2002
posts:1580
votes: 0


>Or, you have been witness to the infamous "broken tool bar."

Yup, Google only shows PR4+ sites as backlinks. But, when the toolbar was showing an incorrect PR value it appeared to show links below PR4. That was a toolbar related error.

The thing I am yet to be convinced of is that backlinks below PR4 actually do you any real good in terms of PR. I have sites with thousands of external low PR backlinks, none of them show in Google, but I know they exist. But they don't seem to raise the PR of the recipient site at all.

By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...but it doesn't. Meanwhile one PR6 link does the job nicely for a different site with no other backlinks.

This doesn't seem like a very Democratic voting system? It seems like Google wants us to pay for high PR links?

Democracy for sale at Google.com;)

6:50 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 20, 2002
posts:272
votes: 0


Democracy for sale at Google.com;)

Google loves to brag about it's "democratic" system and it's "integrity". They never should have made so much of PR and the toolbar in the first place. Looks like their democracy is suffering from invasion by the "machine" system.

Democracy for sale - ROFLMAO.

8:10 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:June 20, 2002
posts:4652
votes: 0


"Yup, Google only shows PR4+ sites as backlinks."

People keep saying this and it is still totally wrong. It used to be true but not anymore. Google often shows backlinks less than PR4 now. Get with the program.

8:19 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 5, 2002
posts:413
votes: 0


"By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...but it doesn't. <<<
!, looks like the toolbar is still broken..
9:01 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:May 5, 2002
posts:825
votes: 0


Over the last few updates our backlink count has dropped and PR has been fluctuating - but our positions in the SERPs have improved over a much broader range of keywords.

>>Google often shows backlinks less than PR4 now.

Seems like it's been that way for a few months now, seeing low PR backlinks is not as uncommon as it once was.

The toolbar seems to be more of a distraction than anything else.

I know the links are there and I'm sure Google knows the links are there. :)

Whether or not they care to admit it doesn't matter to me.

9:21 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:May 23, 2003
posts:801
votes: 0


"By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...but it doesn't. "

But surely, the value of a backlink from a PR2 page depends on how many other sites that page links to? 2000 backlinks from sites with 100 links on their PR2 page really can't count for much - well, one percent as much as a single outbound link on that page.

And many of us would actually love to see your math in a little more detail, because I thought that the step-size between PR2 and PR4 was still something that was a guesstimate.

And in case all that seems like sour grapes, it really isn't. By way of illustration, I have a backlink from a PR6 page that has 400 other sites on it, and it made not one jot of difference to my site when the backlinks were recalculated recently.

DerekH

9:28 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:May 22, 2003
posts:278
votes: 0


>>People keep saying this and it is still totally wrong. It used to be true but not anymore. Google often shows backlinks less than PR4 now. Get with the program.

my words exactly

9:33 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from DE 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 20, 2003
posts:870
votes: 4


By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...

No, a PR4 is correct.

Of course, it depends on the number of links on those pages as well as their exact PR. However, in average this leads to a PR4 (for the current values of the damping factor and logarithmic base).

10:32 am on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:July 22, 2001
posts:2044
votes: 0


If G was showing baclinks with PR<4, would they not also be showing links to pages with a PR<4?
7:43 pm on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 15, 2002
posts:1199
votes: 0


Just to shine a little light on the maths....

It's been speculated over and over here that Pagerank is logarithmic with a base somewhere around 7.

If that were to be true, and Percentages on average received a link from a site with 50 links on the page and if all were PR2:

He would need 50 links to get a PR2

50*7 = 350 for a PR 3

50*7*7 = 2450 for a PR4.

There's something called a damping factor too (to simulate the fact a user may click the back button instead of a link) which increases the number of links needed a little. If the damping factor was set to 0.85, you would need:

50/0.85=59 links to get a PR2,
50/.85*7/.85=484 for PR3
and 50/.85*7/.85*7/.85 = 3989 links for PR4

Of course the whole thing is speculation, but it's served me pretty well as a yardstick.

7:50 pm on Sept 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 9, 2003
posts:546
votes: 0


I have two sites that aren't showing PR5 and PR4 backlinks, but this only happenned in the latest update. I'll be giving Google one more chance...