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Permanent Redirects (301)

How does it take for google to swallow it?

     

dirkz

2:53 pm on Aug 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hi there,
if I install a redirect on a page, how long does it take for google to move PR to the new one? Does PR move at all? In the meantime, does the rank in the SERPs of the original page change? Or is there a one-time switch to 0 once google has fully integrated the 301?

To sum it up, I'd like to get a feeling about how much it "costs" to install a 301, expressed in visitors and ranking.

Any clarifications and experiences welcome!

claus

3:04 pm on Aug 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>> does the rank in the SERPs of the original page change?

I'm not sure if i understand you right.. the page (a) is indexed and in the serps, then one day it 301 redirects to page (b). What would and should happen then, is that the page (a) should dissappear out of the index altogether.

/claus

dirkz

4:53 pm on Aug 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yes, you got it. But I assume there could be some time between, when some backlinks for (a) are still counted for (a), while some are already counted for (b). I wonder whether this could happen.

If it's just one switch, so that all backlinks for (a) are counted for (b), then this would be no problem. But sharing PR between two (identical) pages is one.

hutcheson

6:20 pm on Aug 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It SHOULDN'T cost anything. Google does its monthly munch, and after it's digested, all the links to the old URL come out pointing to the new URL.

Caveat: get your 301's messed up -- link to nowhere, or link in a circle, or link to too long a chain of 301's, and you may have trouble. (And Google may NOT see exactly what your browser shows you, which is another cause for alarm.)

claus

6:28 pm on Aug 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



okay, it's a timing problem. I really don't know how fast G is to transfer the PR, but a 301 means that it's the same page, it's just located at another place so eventually all PR should be transferred.

I think you will experience this, at least i have recently done so:

You make the redirect and Gbot follows. It notices that the page has moved, but it's still the same page somehow. It then waits for some time before changing the old location to the new location in the index, don't know why. That is: the old page (a) is still in the index for some time after gbot has visited (b).

Really, in my case it is the exact same page only the location has changed.

I made this change two-three weeks ago and the old location is still in the serps, although it gets spidered a lot. In my case it's no problem, as when people click the link in the serps they are transferred to the new URL automatically, and the new page (location that is) has got the PR from the old page (location) already when i check using the Tbar.

/claus

ThatAdamGuy

1:13 am on Aug 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It took a month or two for me, and it seemed to be a gradual process.

I moved blog.mysite.com --> www.myblog.com

- After a week or so, myblog.com had garnered the PR from the old pages, but the old pages were still referenced in the SERPS
- Then, a few weeks later, the old pages disappeared from the SERPS and were replaced by the new pages.

icarus

2:07 am on Aug 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Dirkz,

I've been having some issues with a 301 redirect; you may want to take a look at the thread. I'll be updating it when things finally settle for better or for worse:

[webmasterworld.com...]

There's also some tips and ideas from other WebmasterWorld members in that thread.

In summary; It's been 19 days now since I applied the redirect, old file name dropped completely from the index a couple of days ago and new file name appeared at the same time, PR assigned yesterday, some backlinks appearing now; but SERP rankings have dropped appreciably - no fresh tags as yet since it originally appeared in the database except for the first 24 hours. Other engines have handled the change well, AV, FAST, Ink - rankings remained firm, although they still show the old page name (but they are all updated results from the last couple of days).

dirkz

7:39 am on Aug 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



icarus, this is what I fear: SERP rankings dropping. So you made the experience that your site was (or even is) in some kind of limbo with less rank than before. This can be devastating.

ThatAdamGuy, claus, did you experience also a dropping?

icarus

9:36 am on Aug 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi Dirkz,

It hasn't been fun, and a number of lessons have been learned through this experience. One of the guys stated in the other thread:

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

.. and he may well have been right on this point.

But, I would also like to point out, that I have used 301 redirects before without any of the problems I'm experiencing now - no loss of PR or rankings; nice and smooth transition.

Given all the recent activity with rankings and PR, I may have just been unlucky enough to have done this at the wrong time; or did something else incorrectly. As pageoneresults said in the other thread - I may just have to be patient.

I've just checked my logs again for the last 12 hours and the Googlebot is still active, but it's still looking for the old file name, not the new one. The temptation is to restore the old file name, but I think that would be a bit like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted - especially now that PR has been dished out and backlinks are being indicated for the new file name.

claus

10:34 am on Aug 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



No dropping here, at least not sofar. The page was and is still #1 for it's targeted keyphrase. The URL is still the old one in the SERPS and the Tbar PR is the same but the new address is being spidered.

/claus

ThatAdamGuy

8:00 am on Sep 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



ThatAdamGuy, claus, did you experience also a dropping?

Dirk, I believe you're thinking of PIGEON rank :D

Heh heh, seriously, though... one of my pages, which previously ranked quite high for relevant keywords, is now not in Google's index at all.

However, it seems that all my other pages got carried over okay, so I can't assume that this issue is due to redirection stuff.

dirkz

9:01 am on Sep 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



ThatAdamGuy, thanks for the hint :) It should be drop, right.

ThatAdamGuy

10:15 am on Sep 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Yes, and after I wrote that I thought... ack, I hope my teasing was seen as good-natured and not American arrogance. After all, your English is clearly FAR better than my German (even though I lived in Mannheim, Deutschland for a year ;)

But yes, you're right... 'drop' would sound less strange, though from a purely grammatical standpoint, I'm guessing it wouldn't make that much of a difference.

dirkz

10:40 am on Sep 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



ThatAdamGuy, really, I'm thankful for every kind of correction of my errors. I always try hard to be understood easily, so this is critical for me.

Arnett

1:45 pm on Sep 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



- After a week or so, myblog.com had garnered the PR from the old pages, but the old pages were still referenced in the SERPS
- Then, a few weeks later, the old pages disappeared from the SERPS and were replaced by the new pages.

Thanks. I'm in the middle of a huge exclusion/redirect thing. I'll watch closely for the next few weeks and see if the results are similar.