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Now, this page with the link is PR7, so normally I'd expect a bit of a PR boost from this. However, two things are (possibly) working against me.
1) The page is almost entirely links - about 100. Does this mean there will be no PR at all coming my way, or just very little. Will 1/100th of PR7 make any difference?
2) The links are ordered by the number of clicks you've sent through - which means I'm currently at the bottom. Does position on the page make any difference to the amount of PR passed on?
If so, I could just probably just click through myself and jump up the page - I'd only need 40 to get into the top ten, and I get the impression the site owners have forgotten the page exists. There's certainly no automated checking for repeat clicks as I've already clicked twice and both have been accepted.
3) The third, and probably most crucial question is this: Why do I (and perhaps many others) spend so much time chasing PR instead of developing content?
Roddy
Remember how they made big money? well... most of them done now... washed up with nothing to show for it.
i know a few people that are still driving ferraris from thier "manipulation" days ..
everyone hates bulk mailers too, but they are the ones making "bulk" cash .. its unfortunate that sometimes, the spammers and the bulkers are the ones that ARE making the cash .. and is it because they make cash and beat us in the SERPs that we hate them.
I'd rather make big money for a few months than little money for a few years. Then at least i can move on and try the next big money fad and make more big money next time.
what some people dont realise in this game is you can have both.
have some sites that you play with, test stuff, try new tricks, make bulk cash .. but you can also have your little sites that hum away earning you constant coin everyday of the week too.
so would anyone... your point?
just in case everyone didn't here him, listen to what roddy said:
- "It is a major player in a niche market."
- "It's a site I would be delighted to get a link from regardless of PR."
- "It's relevant. My site is about [...] X, their site is software for using X"
- "They show up as backlinks in Google"
- "I now have a genuine PR7 link, which should bring in both traffic and PR"
...now why shouldn't he keep the link again?
>Then at least i can move on and try the next big money fad and make more big money next time.
Question: did you make big money this time? My guess you have been doing this maybe a year, maybe 18 months at best... and in the last 4 months made enough to make your mouth water. I say that because if you were a real player, you would be painfully aware the big picture... the one that illustrates 'the next big fads' are going to be increasingly more difficult to master if you wait until then to figure out what they are going to be.
>are you really an SEO?
yeah.
> only thing [...] SEO's [...] cared about was manipulating search results
...yep, me included:) But the difference was that I was trying to give some decent advice to roddy here... basically the only advice he didn't get was someone to remind him why links were important in the first place... to move traffic.... anybody remember that? That's the stuff we are all trying to get... if your focus was to get links to get quality traffic, in the end not only would you end up with a steady supply of useable traffic which was completely independent of engine traffic, but you would end up with, you guessed it, engine traffic. Roddy didnt come in here and say, “I’m running 40 different fully branded affiliate sites” he was trying to promote his one site in a verticle... so he got the armchair advice with that in mind.
>spammers and the bulkers are the ones that ARE making the cash
true... like I said, if your going to do it, burn and loot.... I read that post that that 'kamakaziSEO' (or whatever his nic is) said something like he launched 120 pr6 sites.... now that is my type of spammer:)
no bs here guys, dogboy knows more that some small countries on this topic, you may want to listen. I did years ago and payed well...
good to see ya around bud.
just in case everyone didn't here him, listen to what roddy said:
- "It is a major player in a niche market."
- "It's a site I would be delighted to get a link from regardless of PR."
- "It's relevant. My site is about [...] X, their site is software for using X"
- "They show up as backlinks in Google"
- "I now have a genuine PR7 link, which should bring in both traffic and PR"
...now why shouldn't he keep the link again?
Roddy says
I've deleted the link from my site - the way the other sites links page is being run, any idiot could come along and fill it up with links to god-knows-what, leading to penalisation.
Meanwhile, their link to my site remains on their page, and if I want it removed at any point I can email them (and hope they respond). It will disappear after one month of no clicks anyway.
As I understand it, search engines may hold you responsible to what you link to, but not what links to you, so I should be safe.
And to all those who've sent me sticky mail asking for the URL of the page - no chance. The less well-known the site remains the better for me.
I'm still curious as the effect of position on page on PR transfer - I've come to the conclusion PR isn't that relevant, but still interesting to study - a bit like Ancient Greek or something . . .
Roddy
Google does actively penalize for irrelevance
GoogleGuy mentioned earlier in response to a question on this topic that he for one has found all sorts of cool things from links that are not always "relevant". Kind of a stream of consciensness thing.
BTW, Great post, dogboy.
The Google guidelines suggest that you have no more than 100 links on a page... as for their reasoning on this, who knows, but generally, the higher the better - if only for a bit of an ego kick ;)
We all know the number one threat to any engine is SPAM (aka manipulation) ... so the thing you want to do is build a genuinely great site... if you really build a great site, sooner or later, the engines will be smart enough to figure that out...
LOL! that's what I've been doing wrong! I keep on forgetting to make a genuinely great site... thanks for the reminder, I'll make 10 of them tomorrow ;)
(just kidding btw) Certainly true, but easier said than done ;)
Just one other thing that no one has pointed out... a link from a PR7 page with 100 links on it, is about equal to a link from a PR5 page where you're the only link on the page (assuming a base 10 log for PR's).
Personally I think you'd be crazy not to link to this site, it sounds like a great linking opportunity.
Question: did you make big money this time? My guess you have been doing this maybe a year, maybe 18 months at best... and in the last 4 months made enough to make your mouth water. I say that because if you were a real player, you would be painfully aware the big picture... the one that illustrates 'the next big fads' are going to be increasingly more difficult to master if you wait until then to figure out what they are going to be.
To answer your question - i have been doing this for about 3 years now, first part time then full time. I had a good paying graduate job, but when i began to earn $100,000 a month I left to persue SEO full time.
I have a number of smaller sites which provide a steady income - and my larger more competitive ones are staying up there too.
My sites are relevant to the user and provide useful content, however, i am not averse to using whatver techniques it takes to keep them there.
I think its quite hypocritical the way people in a SEO forum can talk about how they ONLY care about content when the reason they are here is to find out how to change their pages to get high rankings.
I think i can regard myself as a 'real player' as my revenue continues to rise each month. Collecting $1m from SEO in a short space of time would nudge me into real player category, no?
You are completely correct about that - i remember reading that post and have always kept it in mind as it acutally suprised me given the amount of talk in these forums about only linking to realted sites, etc.
.. began to earn $100,000 a month I left to persue SEO full time
Thats over $3000 per day, and I take it you are US, thats quite a bit of cash, i'd say you are a "player" ..
So how many casinos do you run? I mean, how many pay sites do you have? That kind of daily cash generated by "one SEO guy" can only be earned in a few areas ..
;)
And i did have a good job, yes. But i dont have casinos or paysites - something more run of the mill, but just in a competitive area.
Thanks - i think im a player too!
>> engines are smarter than you
Now, that's a statement you can relate to. Think about it. What's really the essense of this PR thing? Inbounds, yep, that's one step closer, but... it's not it. What are inbounds and how come - of all conceivable measures - that this one should be important? Really?
It's not yours, that's what it is. It's somebody elses. That's the whole thing that big G is built on - ranking your site by a measure that you just can't control by yourself. That's also the reason why building great sites and not giving a d... about PR is the way to make it. Your fellow webmasters will give it to you if you do a good job. Not the engine. That's just a great calculator, nothing else.
The big SE's are always extremely paranoid about anything that can erode their ranking formulas. They want to decide how important you should be, no way you're going to do that yourself. The only SE problem is that the web is such a huge place and there's so many people always trying to get around their formulas and evaluations. They can't cover all, although they must. So what does a smart SE do?
It keeps changing those formulas of course. And it keeps a very open eye to what's going on in the webmaster community. One day it discovers a link farm, or a FFA, or a guestbook. Well, that's interesting, it notes. Then it does nothing. Next day it discovers some thousands. Then it closes the hole. No need to inform webmasters about that, just neutralize the effect. After that, it's still as safe to do the linking as it's always been. There's just no extra bonus. Time (wasted) is such a great teacher.
>> link from a PR7 FFA
In the case of that specific page, i wouldn't worry. Possibly it will have no influence whatsoever in the SERPS. That's not the point. It's a relevant link. You want links to get visitors, that's why. Visitors matter, SE's don't.
This is a very controversial view in here i believe, and there's some chicken-and-egg to it as well. At the end of the day, who pays for the bandwith that the SE spiders use on your site? The only reason why you would even allow them to visit your site is to get flesh-and-blood visitors as well. Those are the ones that pay the bills, SE's are just costs. That's what is so great about Bretts 26 steps. It's really a recipe for building a great site. Doing so means that SEO comes automagically, and you don't even have to think about it. That's free PR, essentially.
>> casinos
Players go there, i've heard, and the house always wins. Whatever, that's entertainment... a great online casino is a great site too.
/claus
ehehheeh ok ok .... see you *do* see the big picture:) sorry for flaming sexist remarks... was in a terrible mood yesterday.
How does Google KNOW that a particular page is a guest book?
By identifying characteristics. Most guestbooks run off the shelf scripts that are easy to spot.
Anyway, I checked my logs this morning and found I've got the link I mention is actually bringing in traffic - not much, but I don't get much anyway . . .
Also, I've earned myself two highly relevant links from high-traffic sites in the last 24 hours, just by having a decent site that's been noticed by people with other decent sites - over the last week I've got a couple of PR7's, a 6 and two 5's - I'm quite looking forward to the next update (rolling, partial or dancing).
Roddy
