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Im new to this board, a freind recomend It highly. I have a site that starts off with a index.htm page, which i have target all my keywords in title and text. I have links that goto a page preview.htm which is the frame (I belive, my HTML is not so good), Then at the bottom of the frame is preview1.htm which has the links to 50 cataloged pages of materal. the top of the frame is where the 1-50 pages of cataloged of content are dispalyed.
My question is will google only see my idex.htm page, or will it go past the frame, and spider all 50 contnet pages also. I hope i was clear enough.
also, Is It best for a site to have only inbound links, or should I also return the link and have outgoing links as well?
Thanks allot,
Jay Lyons
There is no general problem with frames. Google (normally) will spider all of your pages (assuming that the PR of your site/pages is high enough, i.e. if you have a number of incoming links).
However, to avoid that people are seeing just a frame (i.e. a content page without navigation) you can think of a redirection.
also, Is It best for a site to have only inbound links, or should I also return the link and have outgoing links as well?
I would do what is the best for the user. I wouldn't worry about a few (high quality) outgoing links. However, I wouldn't put them on the index page.
Here's a good thread to get you started:
[webmasterworld.com...]
The best way to make sure that your content is spidered is to put a sitemap in the <noframes> content of the main frameset.
Currently, this doesn't work. Google won't follow links in the noframes section. However, Google will follow the frames (i.e. <frame src="...> inside the frameset tag).
It leapt in the SERPS about 15 places and nearly quadrupled its traffic.
That might have been co-incidence, but, if not, deframing was just about the most effect bit of SEO that site has ever seen.
google can follow _SOME_ javascript links - but the ability to do so is greatly limited.
Thanks for all the advice. I do not belive I jave JS links. I tuend it off and the links worked. I simply create a index.htm in DW.. the catalg link goes to a small page called preview.htm (a fiend set this page up, and I belive this is whre the frame is created).. At the bottom of the page is allways preview1.htm with 50 links to 50 pages which appear at the top. the links look like this -
[(website).com...] (thru 50)
and that page appears in the top frame.
Im basicaly asking this beacuse I need to know if i need to re-do the catalog pages to include my keywords if google will spider them all.
Also, Did i understand correctly that since i have several PR4 inbound links to my new page, I should NOT have outgoing return links on my index.htm page?
Thanks alot all..
Jay
I also did the reading on the link, and more an i dont fully understand these terms if you could help..
orpgan link
serps
Im basicaly asking this beacuse I need to know if i need to re-do the catalog pages to include my keywords if google will spider them all.
Yes, Google will spider your catalog pages (since you are using normal HTML links). I would chose an appropriate anchor text (on the preview1.htm page) as well as appropriate titles on the catalog pages.
Also, Did i understand correctly that since i have several PR4 inbound links to my new page, I should NOT have outgoing return links on my index.htm page?
I would recommend to place the external outgoing links on some inner page.
orpgan pages
Normally 'orphan pages' refers to pages with no incoming link. However, in this case it was used for pages which are part of a frameset and therefore doesn't have any navigation on it (your content pages). To avoid that user are just seeing these pages without the navigation frame, you should redirect the user to the frameset page by using JavaScript.
Also, I would place some cross links (i.e. link to other content pages) on your content pages.
thanks allot! Ill incorprate all that. I have a question, as this is my first site using frames (and someone had to make the frame for me - sad but true)
"To avoid that user are just seeing these pages without the navigation frame, you should redirect the user to the frameset page by using JavaScript."
--can you expaine what/how to redirect with javascript or know a page with the script and expaintion?
"Also, I would place some cross links (i.e. link to other content pages) on your content pages."
--should I just cross-link a few pages on each page, or copy my table with all 50 links and put it at the bottom of each catalog page?
Thanks so much!
jay
Jay
On each page that goes in the target="_content" (right hand) frame:
<head>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
internalpage = document.URL
if (top.location == self.location)
top.location.href="http://www.domainname.com/frameset.html?" + internalpage
</script>
</head>
The left hand frame is a normal frame with navigation all pointing to target="_content"
The frameset.html page had:
<html>
<head>
<title>This Page</title>
</head>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
startURL = parent.document.URL
internalURL = startURL.substring(startURL.indexOf('?')+1, startURL.length)
document.write('<frameset frameborder="0" border="0" framespacing="0" cols="137,651"><frame src="/nav.htm" name="_nav" marginwidth="5" marginheight="1" frameborder="NO" scrolling="no" noresize><frame src=" ' + internalURL + '" name="_content" noresize frameborder="NO" scrolling="auto"><\/frameset>')
</script>
<noframes>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" background="/images/background.jpg">
</body>
</noframes>
</html>
The site is properly indexed in Google, under the individual page URLs. When visiting one from a search engine link it quickly jumps into the frame.
Thanks for yor reply. I have basic knowledge of HTML, but the way you explaine it i belive I understand now, I just want to be clear on 2 things please.
"<head>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
internalpage = document.URL
if (top.location == self.location)
top.location.href="http://www.example.com/frameset.html?" + internalpage
</script>
</head>"
--> I should add this to each of my 50 catalog pages? also this
"http://www.example.com/frameset.html?"
should it point to the preview.htm, the page that has the frame code, or refer back to the page itself?
MY frame preview.htm seems to be this -
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</head>
<frameset rows="*,211" cols="*" framespacing="0" frameborder="NO" border="0">
<frame src="preview1_nav.htm" name="mainFrame">
<frame src="preview1.htm" name="bottomFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize>
</frameset>
<noframes><body>
</body></noframes>
</html>
so the only thing I should change is the code to [(mywebsite).com...] on each of my catalog pages.
is this correct?
I dont need to add any code to the frame page preview.htm or the page preview1.htm which is at the bottom of the page and has the links to the 50 catalog pages?
It was suggested to put links to the 50 catalog pages on my plain main index.htm, should I do this as well, if im going to do this?
Thank you for your time,
Jay 'learning fast' Lyons :P
[edited by: Marcia at 11:12 pm (utc) on Aug. 3, 2003]
[edit reason] Made URL generic. [/edit]
--should I just cross-link a few pages on each page, or copy my table with all 50 links and put it at the bottom of each catalog page?
I would have at least one (cross) link on every content page. I think having all 50 links at the bottom of each catalog page isn't the best for the user, because you already have these links in the navigation frame (preview1.htm ).
--> I should add this to each of my 50 catalog pages?
yes.
should it point to the preview.htm, the page that has the frame code, or refer back to the page itself?
It should point to the page that contain the frameset (preview.htm).
I dont need to add any code to the frame page preview.htm
You need to add the second code on your preview.htm page.
It was suggested to put links to the 50 catalog pages on my plain main index.htm, should I do this as well, if im going to do this?
yes.
Thanks so much, that clears up so many questions thank you all! this great! The only thing I am unsure of is how I should change my preview.htm (frame page)
The example given to me was -
The frameset.html page had:
<html>
<head>
<title>This Page</title>
</head>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
startURL = parent.document.URL
internalURL = startURL.substring(startURL.indexOf('?')+1, startURL.length)
document.write('<frameset frameborder="0" border="0" framespacing="0" cols="137,651"><frame src="/nav.htm" name="_nav" marginwidth="5" marginheight="1" frameborder="NO" scrolling="no" noresize><frame src=" ' + internalURL + '" name="_content" noresize frameborder="NO" scrolling="auto"><\/frameset>')
</script>
<noframes>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" background="/images/background.jpg">
</body>
</noframes>
</html>
but my frame preview.htm is coded like this
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Frameset//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/frameset.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<title>Untitled Document</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</head>
<frameset rows="*,211" cols="*" framespacing="0" frameborder="NO" border="0">
<frame src="preview1_nav.htm" name="mainFrame">
<frame src="preview1.htm" name="bottomFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize>
</frameset>
<noframes><body>
</body></noframes>
</html>
I realize I cant copy/pate the whole example , and I am unsure "exactly" what code I need to change on preview.htm for the JS re-driect to work, can you help me out? I understand everything else and am incorprating it all now. I have made major changes and am looking foward to the results :P
Thank you for your time,
Jay
The content of the left pane must have all links pointing to the right pane. In this example the right pane is target="_content".
The left pane in the example is target="_nav".
The short code goes on every one on the pages that appear in the right frame of the frameset. The right frame is target="_content" in the example, and the left frame is target="_nav".
The script works by making the visited page that you arrive at full screen from a search engine, call the frameset page, with itself as a referrer. The content page then jumps into the frame on the right as the frameset uses the referrer URL to load the right hand pane with content.
The right hand pane pages have their own URLs which Google will index as long as you have a sitemap page that lists them all.
As long as you hide the frameset code using the javascript then you won't have google index the longer URLs that are formed when the frameset is active.
Example http://www.mydomain.com/information.htm listed in Search Engine.
After visiting the page the browser address bar will show http://www.mydomain.com/frameset.htm?http://www.mydomain.com/information.htm and so on.
thanks for the reply. I have pritned out all the code, and tryed very hard to understand the changes in code needed. I have limited knowledge of HTML and frames, but I tried what you suggested and used frameset page and adapted it for preview.htm (my frame page). I have no Idea if this code is correct but this is what I came up with, would this work, as I split my page diffrently?
preview.htm
<html>
<head>
<title>This Page</title>
</head>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
startURL = parent.document.URL
internalURL = startURL.substring(startURL.indexOf('?')+1, startURL.length)
document.write('<frameset rows="*,211" cols="*" framespacing="0" frameborder="NO" border="0">
<frame src="preview1_nav.htm" name="mainFrame">
<frame src="preview1.htm" name="bottomFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize>
</frameset>')
</script>
<noframes><body>
</body></noframes>
</html>
If that is correct and would work for my orginal frameset I would be tickled pink. If that Is correct then all I add is this code to each of my cataloged pages?
<head>
<script language="javascript" type="text/javascript">
internalpage = document.URL
if (top.location == self.location)
top.location.href="http://www.mydomainname.com/preview.htm" + internalpage
</script>
</head>
And thats all I need to do for google to get around my stupid frame page?
Thank you for your time and patience,
Jay
Oh yes it does. It's been crawling my links in noframes areas ever since I first used them. Most search engines don't crawl through the page unless there in noframes.
Why not just try it. When I am developing something I start a separate folder on the hard drive, and a separate folder on the web site and experiment with separate copies of the files until I get it right. Then I incorporate the changes in the main thread of code. At this time, you only need to be working on three files, the frameset, the navigation frame, and one content page.
How do you work on your sites? I make a folder in My Documents called WebSites. Inside that folder is a folder for each site by DomainName. Inside each of those is a dated version of the site archived like 20030621, 20030730, and so on, as well as a scratch folder, one for FTP uploading scripts, one for notes and to do lists, and so on. For the current HTML code of the site, I work in a folder called Latest then when it is finalised, copy that entire folder to a new folder that is then given the archive date as its name. I can therefore go back to older versions of the site if I hit a problem with the latest version. You need to have some sort of system otherwise you will lose data, or end up throwing away good code and keeping bad code.
G1smd, thats a great idea. I dont trust my knowledge of HTML, so I just took the catalog table and put it on the index.htm page with strait links to each of the 50 catalog pages. as suggested I made a next ¦ back ¦ home link on each 50 catlaog page so there all inter-linked. Will GOOGLE now spider each catalog page. I still have links going to my frame page and dispay the catalog pages there as well. Do I need to worry about my frame page now, or should I try to recode that java script?
Thanks alot,
Jay
