Using <noframes> on a non-framed page

[glengara]

A question was posed (by e-mail) to a Google "engineer" about including text in the <noframes> tags on an image intensive non-framed page.
The answer from G was <noframes> aren't as effective, and they'd recommend some visible text.
My jaw is still sore from where it hit the floor.

[Brett_Tabke]

Ya, this changed a few months back. Fallout still expected. (eg: waiting for that proverbial other shoe to drop).

[tribal]

Why would your yaw be sore? This is a good way of optimizing your sites without people seeing the optimized text, but it got abused more and more.

Therefore, G decided to start ignoring the text between noframes tags. Imo this was pretty much to be expected and true, it's not fair for the 0.01% of people that use a text or frames disabled browser but hey, u can't keep everybody happy right?

[dragonlady7]

I've seen a couple of raging debates on this topic.
After raging about it for a while, everyone involved realized that what Google meant wasn't "Sure, go ahead and stuff keywords into the noframes tag on a non-framed page, it'll get you into the top ten with our blessing"-- what they meant was "there's probably something better you can do, but just putting your copy there won't get you banned."
Which I took to mean "we ignore it, pretty much", but the original person who asked the question took to mean "sure it'll work!"
I think the technique that was eventually blessed as "kosher" by the gurus present (some of them anyway) was to use the longdesc tag to insert a URL to an alternative, text-only page. Which seems a good solution-- users and spiders who can't appreciate the images could go see a less unfriendly entry page for the site.
But I'm not sure of that.

I just couldn't see all the fuss over the whole issue. So it won't get you banned-- so what? It won't get you #1 either.

[DavidT]

If there is fallout it doesn't presently affect the no-frames area of my index page, it ranks so well I'm actually embarrassed about it, in some cases, on some terms. "Wholesale widgets" and there it is #3 on Google, #2 on Ink.

What I have noticed though is that the default page in the main frame has disappeared from the index, Googlebot crawls regularly, index has fresh tag every other day, but that all-text page in the main frame is nowhere and has been for some time. This may be accident or it may be the "penalty" for having no-frames content given full weight which it sure seems to be in my case.

Even so, I'm getting the templates done to enable a quick changeover to non-frames if necessary. Sure ain't at the moment.

[glengara]

Well in another discussion Alan Perkins pointed out that in a small number of cases there was a valid use of the <noframes> tag in a non framed page, so what appeared a mountain may well be a mole-hill.

[Chris_D]

Hi Glengara,

My jaw is still sore from where it hit the floor

My jaw would also hit the floor if I ever got a specific email answer to a specific email question seeking optimisation advice from a Google engineer........

Forget what the advice itself was - what a precedent!

: )

Chris_D

Hmmm Maybe now's the right time to email and ask for a copy of the current template for the 'perfect score' page, and if I could get a couple of links off the Google homepage....

[tedster]

the default page in the main frame has disappeared from the index

I've noticed this too -- both with regular frames and iframes it seems that a page designated only with a src= attribute often doesn't make it. The only solution I found is having a regular HTML link to the default page, in a site map or wherever you can place it.

[rcjordan]

>the no-frames area of my index page, it ranks so well

I've been known to use it once or twice myself to position a page high in the serps (ok, ok, a lot of pages). Noframes' potency comes and goes. Like meta tags, it's a wide open hole that the SEs will be forced to abandon. I'd only use it where there are no other options and plan to move on to another strategy in the long term.

[DavidT]

I've noticed this too -- both with regular frames and iframes it seems that a page designated only with a src= attribute often doesn't make it. The only solution I found is having a regular HTML link to the default page, in a site map or wherever you can place it.

But I link to it from about 60 pages, it's my "home" page.