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These particular sites were (and are) bigtime linkspammers/PR-buyers. I'm not sure if they were reported or if the algo caught them, but I would guess it was the former rather than the latter, since these sites had consistently strong positions for several months and one had a fairly clever linking strategy.
I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from this phenomenon. Each of these sites that I've checked are still at it with the spammy strategy that presumably got them banned in the first place. Hopefully, google penalties wouldn't expire if the offense is still occurring. That leaves me to conclude that either the algorithmic filter that caught these sites is out to lunch, or the manually-applied penalty data isn't being taken into account.
Clearly this isn't sending the right message to these folks or to those who would use similarly questionable tactics. If you can do well for a few months before being caught, and then rise from the dead in post-penalty confusion, why wouldn't you keep spamming? Where's the deterrent to spam and the incentive to stay clean? It doesn't exactly speak to the effectiveness of the almightly spam report, either.
I can attest to this phenomenon in my industry, but are other people seeing this as well? What are your observations?
So I'm in Twilight47's camp. I'm seeing the reverse effect.
A week or so following my report, and these sites remain high in SERPs and have kept their [very nice] PR
While I still believe Google is the best around, I see the spam sites are still there. I reported the sites once 2 months ago and once again on @ July 15th. I'm hoping that Google is doing what GoogleGuy says: Looking at the spam reports and finding ways to filter them algorithmically. I must say I'm a little surprised when I see sites that were [apparently] removed by hand back in the SERPS with the spam techniques still present on the page.
Anyway, if you are getting beat by pages that have invisible links, and this is the only reason for your failure, that shouldn't be very hard to overcome.
As politely as possible, I'd like to say that I focus on putting content on the page that is relevant to the user. I could definitely place higher in the SERPS for more phrases if I spammed by using hidden text and hidden links. I choose not to do that.
I think Google needs to provide some clarification about what's OK and what's not.
Yes, it's kind of confusing. On Google's "webmaster" page, they outline some practices that are not acceptable. They again mention these practices on the "spam report" page. They do a temporary ban on many of the sites, and then they bring them back in all their spammy glory and rank them well in the SERPS. It would be great to get some clarification. Maybe we'll see a reversal of fortune for these sites with the next update?
I'm hoping that Google is doing what GoogleGuy says: Looking at the spam reports and finding ways to filter them algorithmically.
Yeah, I'm sure they're doing that, and I completely understand that philosophy. I know when I'm creating a site, I'm always looking for ways to make the mundane maintenance type stuff happen on its own...cron jobs, scripts that are automatically triggered by events in other scripts, that sort of thing. It just makes sense and reduces the workload and annoyance factor.
I think google needs to realize that spam in the index isn't a mundane detail that they can just administrate out of existence with some fancy algos and filters...the fact is, its probably the biggest threat to their dominance right now and automation just isn't going to cut it.
I would liken the situation to AI vs. real human opponents in FPS's or really any computer/video game genre. Its incredibly easy to make AI opponents that aim perfectly and can track you down, but I don't think they'll ever be as unpredictable or able to adapt as people.
Smart spammers are those crafty snipers who were in your face with a melee weapon 10 seconds ago. They changed strategy and you never saw it coming. Smart spammers will always be a step ahead of algorithms.
One of the sites I recently reported to google was using a clever enough strategy that I don't think any algorithm would be able to pick it out without throwing away lots of good sites in the process. This site has been in the top 10 for a very competitive keyphrase for 3 of the past 4 months. There's money to be made in this, no question, and that's motivation enough for anyone. The question is, does google see the motivation to really do something about it?
Go hire 10...100 people, whatever it takes, to go through spam reports and respond appropriately.
Ensure the quality of the index. Don't just ask for spam reports and forward them to your Aunt Mable along with the latest green bean casserole recipe. Do something about it.
Show legit webmasters and SEOs that quality matters and spam won't be ignored.
You are wrong. Data is missing. I have #1's, but I can see this.
jady
When did GG do this for you? He has canned Hormel sites I reported to him in the past, but most recently when he agreed something needed to be done about certain sites, he said they were now doing it by algo (which takes longer).
Observations - agree with you - I cannot see any action on blatant spam (multiple duplicate sites and pages in SERP's in my sector.)
{I'm hoping that Google is doing what GoogleGuy says: Looking at the spam reports and finding ways to filter them algorithmically.}
I`m with you again here - IMO what does it matter how these companies and their techniques are dealt with as long as they are removed permanently and preferably in a timely manner.
I`ve read numerous reports in WW over the last few months about this subject. I`ve given up reporting one such company (as blatant as their practices are) and contrary to the belief of some people here, the WW username does not (in my experience) seem to carry any weight nor make any difference to the submission.
Despite GG mentioning that they like to receive reports on spam to help them, IMO Google do not appear to have the facilities to carry out these tasks in a timely or satisfactory manner.
If this is so, I would have thought that webmasters and members of WW who submit these reports will cease doing so.
Let us remind ourseleves exactly what Google say:
Google strives to return the most relevant results for every search we conduct. To that end, we encourage website managers to make their content straightforward and easily understood by both users and search engines alike. Unfortunately, not all websites have our users' best interests at heart.
and
Trying to deceive (spam) our web crawler by means of hidden text, deceptive cloaking or doorway pages compromises the quality of our results and degrades the search experience for everyone. We think that's a bad thing.
If your Google search returns a result that you suspect is spam, please let us know using this form. We investigate each report of deceptive practices thoroughly and take appropriate action when abuse is uncovered. At minimum, we will use the data from each spam report to improve our site ranking and filtering algorithms. The result of this should be visible over time as the quality of our searches gets even better. In especially egregious cases, we will remove spammers from our index immediately, so they do not show up in search results at all. Other steps will be taken as necessary.
Before everyone starts shouting "SPAM!" hoping someone might pick up on it, you may be better advised to work on your and your client sites for more quality inbound links and unique content.
If Google cannot deal with the problems highlighted over the last few months then more than likely along will come another Search Engine who will and the SE world, as we know it, will once again be turned on its head.
EW
I`ve read numerous reports in WW over the last few months about this subject. I`ve given up reporting one such company (as blatant as their practices are) and contrary to the belief of some people here, the WW username does not (in my experience) seem to carry any weight nor make any difference to the submission.
Perhaps not....maybe its just something GoogleGuy says to do so that we can feel like little Junior G-man Spamcops.
Despite GG mentioning that they like to receive reports on spam to help them, IMO Google do not appear to have the facilities to carry out these tasks in a timely or satisfactory manner.
Indeed not, and this is precisely what they need.
If this is so, I would have thought that webmasters and members of WW who submit these reports will cease doing so.
Well, unfortunately the spam report seems to be the only means to deal with this, so I'd say a slim chance of getting something done is better than none. Still, its not encouraging.
Before everyone starts shouting "SPAM!" hoping someone might pick up on it, you may be better advised to work on your and your client sites for more quality inbound links and unique content.
I definitely am...and I'm getting more bold with SEO as I see how poor google's response has been. There's a definite line I'll never cross, and users are always my first concern, but once you see how easy it is to successfully spam, you tend to lose a few inhibitions.
A lot of it is just necessary in order to compete with spam. This is not helping google either. As more people with quality sites enter the gray area between legitamacy and spam, google's job in sorting out the difference gets a lot harder. This is why bold responses are needed on their part. While they're certainly under no obligation to do so, for their own survival, Google needs to reward quality.
And I personally think that Algo is the best way to get these guys - but I am sure NOTHING will ever be perfect and some sites will still have to be banned by hand. But think of the man-power Google would need just to answer, investigate and respond to all of the spam report they receive! Still if I come across a REALLY spammed out site, I report it in hopes that it will help Google perfect their Algo and filters.
Time to hold Google accountable.
I think so!
a chrontab or something so trivial that can be done inside of an hour's work couldn't possibly be compared to working on algos to change search results on 3 billion + pages.
oranges meet apples. apples, say hello to oranges.
it can take three weeks to arrange information architecture and drill-down points for a large site (i did it for the people who make solaris, but shall remain unnamed and it took 3 MONTHS, because so many people had to have input).
sure seems to me that for all of the screamin that google's 'campus grown' image is a cover for their dasterdly corporatization, it's funny that people still think that it IS just two guys pressing buttons, and that things should happen overnight, or even within a couple of month's time.
ugh
i think that very few people in this forum are thinking about what's best for google...which is returning the results that searchers want, not webmasters.
That's certainly better than hearing about big-time legitimate spammers flooding the index...
i think that google not only SHOULD use the algo to nab spam, but MUST, or they will have to employ an army to watch over all of the SERPs.
I'm not complaining about automated means of catching spam. Read my posts above and you'll see that. Its just that human eyes and human judgment will always be needed to catch the worst offenders of the portion of spam that can't be filtered so easily.
It also establishes a better tone with webmasters if google shows some interest quality and the ability to respond to spam reports.
I'm not saying its a small project or all spam should disappear with the flip of a switch. I'm saying its a bizzatch of a problem and this is what needs to be done about it.
most of the complaints are in regards to harmless webmasters with a hidden link, black text, or something else trivial and easily beaten.
My complaints are not about any these things. 200,000 bought, anchor-text optimized backlinks, of which 20,000+ are PR4-9, are not easily beaten. Massive crosslinking is not easily beaten.
