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Strategies Working With Google

         

DerekH

4:35 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



One of our community sticky-mailed me to ask me to add my own comments on this post-mortem, because I'd earlier posted to say that I'd been happy with what I've seen, and in particular I was asked to include some of the things I'd done to my site while waiting....

Well, as so many of us do, I read GGs comments carefully, read them again, looked between the lines, tried to work out what they said, and more importantly what they didn't say. The "I wouldn't worry about xxx" comments were always noted by me as being 100% good advice!

Here are some of the things that I did to my smallest website...

I went after links - of course - but since it's a minority topic I had minimal success. I got a bit dispirited at first - a feeling of me against the world, but hey, on the grounds that there's more ways of killing a cat than permanently redirecting it, I did all the other things...

I tried DMOZ but there's no editor on the pages I want, and I've tried Yahoo. Zilch.

I got into Zeal UK after completing their quiz - that was a fun time! That has the side effect of getting me to the top of MSN UK from seventh.

I swapped from <FONT= to CSS, which cleaned up the code greatly, and I did that dodge of making the left hand navigation panel in the main table appear below the page text, by adding a spacer cell above it.

With the CSS working, I stripped out all the Javascript rollovers and did CSS hover instead, which meant I had proper anchor links on the navigation, and I added TITLE= for IE users.

The CSS made it easier to use a nice looking <H1> at the top of each page, and these tied in with the page titles more closely than they used to. I put some META description in as well, in case Google's snippet was the top part of the page - it reads better that way.

Having seen google offer up a URL for a low-level page of mine that had a bizarre filename, when I searched for that bizarre name (which was nowhere else on my site), I decided that there was some mileage in getting a better filename convention going for my pages so that the pages that focus on keyword "derekh-widget" are in a directory called derekh-widget, and yes, I'm happy with hyphens!
This site uses a Free ISP so I can't use a 301 - all the old pages were replaced by a message and a Meta Refresh to the new pages, and I added a <NOINDEX, FOLLOW> - I'll wait for them to leave the index. At first, I set the refresh time to zero (it still took over a second on my browser), but google was putting the redirected content into a SERPS for the old file. So I've slowed the refresh down and I've got to wait again.

In the same way, all my images that used to have the date on as follows... yymmddwidget.jpg are now called yymmdd-widget.jpg and they have an ALT that's been more carefully chosen so that the image ALT makes sense out of context (eg on a SERPS) as well as while the page is loading.

The new names are easier on the eye in dreamweaver too.

I added more content.

I brought in a hierarchical navigation scheme so that I can keep the PR where I want it (not that the PR is much to shout about, but I can stop it sinking too far down into the site).

I added more forms where visitors can get in touch.

I changed my logo into a button that takes one to the home page, and put a better ALT on it (it's the first thing on each page, and so often appears in the SERPS

I put a breadcrumb on every page to show where in the site the user is, and by matching the navigation button name to the breadcrumb to the page content, I can get better discrimination on keywords, and the breadcrumb means I could get rid of the personalisation of each navigation bar to indicate where the viewer was in my site.

I come top out of 613,000 for the two word phrase I wanted, and one word plus my county name gets me to number 3 so I can catch regional traffic too.

Then I put some effort into making sure that someone would click on my site when they saw it. Not all that lot has percolated through yet, but Google offers two lines or so in which to interest the person reading the SERPS. I try to use them better - if Google picks out the most relevant sentence on my webpage, I try to make that sentence say everything I want!

I looked wider - I starting using ixquick.com to see what other SEs didn't like my site - the latest pages are still to be indexed by other engines, it seems. And I looked at how inviting the entries were when my site appeared on other search engines (pretty naff, some of them!) so I did what I could to clean those up too.

But, as I said in another thread, what has bemused me is that one site of mine has done well and all the pages are freshed up and in the cache except the index page, which is still stale, as at April 25th, and I've no idea why.

So there we are - a small site by most standards, and I hope I don't come across as over-confident with it - all I did was to rework my site, and I have to say that the HTML is much more pleasing to the eye now than it was, and I hope to god that the content is too!

And I'm embarrassed to say, I actually enjoyed do it!

Best regards DerekH

le_gber

5:27 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



DerekH your post could go hand to hand with Brett's successful site in 12 months [webmasterworld.com] - well done.

gave me for thought on how to improve my site and better optimise it

And don't be embarrassed, I too will enjoy every minutes of it.

;)

Leo

Dayo_UK

5:41 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)



Excellent Post DerekH.

I suggest that a lot of members have a read.. Also a good indication that Google still loves those nice clean html sites.

Dayo

Mohamed_E

6:24 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Interesting observation:

Having seen google offer up a URL for a low-level page of mine that had a bizarre filename, when I searched for that bizarre name (which was nowhere else on my site), I decided that there was some mileage in getting a better filename convention going for my pages so that the pages that focus on keyword "derekh-widget" are in a directory called derekh-widget, and yes, I'm happy with hyphens!

I have observed what seemed to be some real value in putting keywords in the filename or path, but was discouraged from doing it on a large scale by the general belief that the added value was very small. May be time to rethink it in the light of your observation.

All in all, a great post!

skipfactor

6:29 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Strategies Working With Google

I must add to your thorough post DerekH, that definitely deserves its own thread: :)

Although my index file isn't around much on its targeted phrases, the industry-specific directories to which I've managed to acquire matching anchor text have brought me excellent referrals during this drought.

Fredbot's grabbing my new links & their anchor text and shooting these mini directories to the top for my missing homepage's keyphrases. The downside to this is that I'm going to have to fight it out with them at the top when I do return.

Instead of using PPC, which don't convert in my neck of the woods, I've also given up a little more to get links boldfaced & placed on the top to grab more human eyeballs.

volatilegx

7:27 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Speaking of alt text for images, something I now do for all the photos of products on my sites is to put each <img> tag into its own <div> and under the image, put descriptive text which matches the alt text, or perhaps expounds on it further. Looks quite nice and definitely lets me insert more keywords into a page in a logical fashion that makes sense.

Great post DerekH!

MyWifeSays

8:55 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



DerekH,

Congratulations on your success and thanks for sharing it with us! One thing you don't mention is your position before making the changes, how much of an improvement in position did you see?

I guess with making so many different changes it would be difficult to say which you think have been most beneficial. Keeping the PR where you want it sounds interesting, how is this done?

What is the PR of your site, how competitive is your phrase and what sort of PR's are you beating on the same topic?

pmac

9:11 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>What is the PR of your site<

It doesn't matter much anymore. Started a few months ago. PR is highly overrated.

Let me restate that. Toolbar PR is highly overrated.

MyWifeSays

9:22 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pmac,

Do you think that on-page factors now make up most of the algo? In my sector the winners are still those with high PR and high numbers of backlinks.

I don't see any sites with low PR and low numbers of backlinks doing well, that's why I'm a little bit sceptical about the changes DerekH has made being enough to make much difference for a competitive search phrase.

pmac

9:33 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>Do you think that on-page factors now make up most of the algo?<

Not at all. Instead of focusing on the PR, take a closer look at the anchor text.

MyWifeSays

9:42 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pmac,

That's what I thought too (along with PR) but that wouldn't explain DerekH's success.

albert

9:43 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



@MyWifeSays:

not sites but pages with low PR and no backlinks are doing well.

Trick: go for very specific key phrases. On-page. The more specific the better :)

Not really new: theme pyramid.

MyWifeSays

9:49 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



albert,

Haven't seen anything like that myself. Shame we can't discuss examples.

pmac

9:57 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>examples<

Widget
blue widgets
the history of widgets
widget buying guide
ect.ect.....

Link em off the root and back using anchor text that you get to control.

Symbios

10:08 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



A good post with some useful info, here are my comments.

When I build my e-commerce sites I always go to great lengths to ensure that page names, titles, descriptions and image alt tags are each unique and include information about each product.

When I check my stats I find that most of the traffic on these sites comes from searches directly for the individual product pages, on one site 5% comes from the home page the other 95% from the product pages.

Maybe the problem with Esmerelda is that sites that try to funnel for one search term to the home page can't escape the radar.

50% of my sites still have <font> tags and from what I've read its time to get rid of them as they bloat the pages code and serve up a potential penalty, also css is so much easier to use.

I have other sites with allinanchor=allintitle=allinH1 etc using the funnel approach which are appearing and disappearing across the datacenters, I'll probably be revisiting these in a few weeks.

I have other sites of about 1000 pages where the index.html page no longer appears top in the SERPS getting the same amount of traffic, more from fringe terms than the main term, I'd like both :)

This thread is about 'Strategies Working on Google', the above comments are my observations with my sites, in summary;

1. Multiple terms across the site on relevant pages tend to do ok.
2. Whole sites built about one search term are up and down in the datacenters like yoyo's
3. Having different titles and page names matching the title content works.

I've no idea if allinanchor=allinh1 gets a penalty as I have lots of sites doing this, some seem to be ok, some do not, maybe there's a trip limit set by % or quantity, if anyone out there knows post here.

And I like hyphens, its a convenient way to split up words.

MyWifeSays

10:13 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



pmac,

I'm sure you're trying to tell me something there but it's way over my head. Are you talking about the anchor text on internal links?

If you're suggesting that anchor text is important then I'm with you all the way. The bit I don't get is how DerekH's changes would be able to compensate for other pages having better PR and good anchor text.

Oaf357

10:33 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Absolutely outstanding DerekH. A very good summary of what works. I hope more people take your advice.

DerekH

10:53 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Symbios wrote
"And I like hyphens, its a convenient way to split up words. "

Er...
Should be
it's-a-convenient-way-to-split-up-words

<grin>

Thank you all for the comments and stickies (I've been typing furiously to catch up!) - this is such a positive and encouraging bunch of lovely people. If you treat your page visitors like you treat each other, I feel sure that Webmasterworld sites will be a far better experience than others!

In fact, I missed that from my post...
"Make your visitors feel pleased they explored your site"

DerekH

Symbios

11:10 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>> Er...
Should be
it's-a-convenient-way-to-split-up-words

Like that, might be worth meeting for a chat, send me a sticky.

GoogleGuy

11:54 pm on Jun 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Nice post, DerekH! A very clear explanation of not just what you were doing, but why. I really enjoyed it.

DerekH

12:11 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Googleguy wrote
"A very clear explanation of not just what you were doing, but why."

Well it would have been, if I'd actually been '*very* clear'... <smile>
You see - I forget something else too <grin>

I should have added this....
I'm in the UK on a slow dial-up, but I made sure that the home pages (but I didn't check deeper) on my sites were HMTL compliant and CSS compliant using the W3C validation services.

===

And I'm going to be mischievous back now - it's about time....

Googleguy didn't say "a good article" or "good ideas", or even "good starting point". So I'll read between the lines (as I said I do) one more time <grin>
I think GG meant this...
"A thorough and detailed account of whistling in the wind"

DerekH

pmac

12:21 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>I think GG meant this...
"A thorough and detailed account of whistling in the wind" <

LMAO

bolitto

12:26 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Your 1.000.000 competitors and Google search quality employees present on this board appreciate your advice. Thank you.

Any *Google News* people?

GrinninGordon

12:38 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)



Hi DerekH

Great post :-)
Know Havant well ;-)

When you said;

there's more ways of killing a cat than permanently redirecting it, I did all the other things...

Do you mean you submitted to guestbooks?

gilli

12:42 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Looks like there are some nice accessibility enhancements in there too.

Font -> CSS
Javascript -> CSS
H1 tags
Descriptive and logical urls
Breadcrumbs and heirarchical navigation
ALT attribtues (don't confuse them with title attribtues)

Coincidence? I think not - Google likes what is good for the user.

I'm not saying all of these changes would have affected the SERPS, some of them probably would have made no difference, but if you design with some basic usability/accessibilty in mind you its one big part of the puzzle taken care of. Bells & whistles and complex javascript navigation are nothing but trouble.

DerekH

6:14 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



GrinninGordon wrote
"Do you mean you submitted to guestbooks? "

I did. Two. But these were genuine guestbooks - one to support a local organisation near me, and one in Australia, where two of my friends are emigrating in a few months' time - it partly closed the loop there.

Be sure I checked them to make sure that my message was appropriate and that the other messages there were appropriate too!

One mustn't forget that a proper guestbook is rather a nice thing!
DerekH

MyWifeSays

7:28 am on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>Absolutely outstanding DerekH. A very good summary of what >works. I hope more people take your advice.

Oaf357 forgot to add:

"because then they won't be appearing above me for competitive terms"

MyWifeSays

12:15 pm on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As I'm not convinced that DerekH's example is proof of a technique that is working with Google I've had a quick look around the SERPS and note the following 2 techniques are working well:

1) Adding URL's to address books. Add a link to your site in hundreds of address books and rise to the top of the SERPS.

2) Multiple domains linking together with hidden links.

I can provide url's and search phrases if people want to sticky me.

There's no guarantee that these techniques will work forever and they may incur a penalty in the future, but then again who knows what will work in the future anyway.

natural

3:57 pm on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



great post DerekH.

it's funny. i've been a webmaster for many summers (i owned a company called The Shop Interactive in the late 90's), and hadn't really given a webmaster 'community' much thought...till i stopped by here.

i have been the boba fet of the internet...and now i'm starting to feel like one of the storm troopers. it's cool to see people share, react, and expand on topics.

anyway; good show not only to DerekH, but also to all of the webmasters who have had encouraging words for someone that was so willing to share the details of his work.

/me wipes a tear from my eye...oh, wait, that's visine

:)

Harwich

4:50 pm on Jul 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>I have other sites with allinanchor=allintitle=allinH1 etc

I hate to show my ignorance but I have no idea what he is referring to in the above line. Would anyone care to explain it to me?

Thanks
Harwich

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