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Keywords in Alt tags...

Do they count?

         

NexDog

10:38 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Another thing I've been wondering about for a good while. Do keywords in alt tags count?

Outlandish

10:40 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think 10 different people in here will give you 10 different answers ;)

they are not as important as in the gold old days but I still use em ;)

Marketing Guy

10:42 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



ALT tags count for users who disable graphics, or are using a screen reader / braille machine / etc to view your site.

I don't see any problem in using a keyword rich, but descriptive ALT tag - it can only help.

The problem arises when you start stuff bullets and minor graphics with dozens of keywords. I can't see that helping at all.

:)

Scott

netguy

10:44 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I would agree with Outlandish... I've never heard anything definitive on this, but it makes common sense that the Alt tags should at least play a minor role in the algo, since images are often an integral part of a web page, and there is no other way to identify the subject of the image, except, in some cases, a link destination.

Steve

Yidaki

10:49 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yes, they count a lot. One thing i observe is: using 1x1 pixel images, hiding their size (avoid writing "width=1 height=1") and stuffing them with keywords is powerfull. Another thing that works great is: using a lot of images (up to 100 img's) that have the same single keyword alt text, linking to the same page - boosts the position of the linked page AND of the linking page for the single word search.

Some say, it's a short term strategy - but short is relative and can be (in some cases IS) more than 12 month.

I don't do this because in general patience is a good thing. May be i do it next month because "in general" also is relative.

NexDog

10:52 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



>>>One thing i observe is: using 1x1 pixel images, hiding their size (avoid writing "width=1 height=1") and stuffing them with keywords is powerful<<<

I heard that was spamming?

Marketing Guy

10:55 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



It is.

Scott

Outlandish

10:55 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



lol NexDog you go get him!

i never use dirty tricks....

<snip>

[edited by: ciml at 12:23 pm (utc) on April 11, 2003]
[edit reason] No specifics please. [/edit]

Monkscuba

10:57 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Wasn't there some news last month suggesting that Google is now ignoring alt tags unless they were in a link? These link alt tags keep coming up in the snippets taken from my pages in the SERP's. As many of the links on my site are made with graphics, this is quite useful. Sure it doesn't have a huge effect, but it's better than a kick in the teeth.

Yidaki

10:59 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>I heard that was spamming?

Yah, it is spamming. So what?

Your question was "Do keywords in alt tags count?" My answer was, yes they count. Allthough i don't suggest you to spam, i observe that spamming is successfull in many cases.

NexDog

11:15 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Will Google ultimately ban you if you continue to do that? It might work for a few months, then you get the axe.......

mil2k

11:50 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yidaki you seem to be really frustrated by spam. But i think others are getting you wrong.

netguy

11:57 am on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



NexDog.. I believe Yidaki is kidding (I hope), as 1x1 pixel images (and their alt tags) are surely ignored in Google's algo, since many of us use dozens of them in every page for alignment and spacing purposes.

It is safe to use transparent 1x1 pixels, but I wouldn't push it by identifying it with an Alt tag.

Steve

ciml

12:26 pm on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



In the last index, alt text continued to be counted only if it was in a link. There was some discussion [webmasterworld.com].

[edited by: ciml at 5:28 pm (utc) on April 11, 2003]

Yidaki

7:20 pm on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just to clarify: no, i'm not kidding. Yes, it is spamming what i described. However, the question was if keywords in alt tags count. From what i observe, they do. And the question you should ask yourself is: should i try it? What's the definition of a long term strategy? What's long? 2 months, six, 12? Successfull site within 12 months - or "successfull site" within 1 month, lasting for 12 months? My competitors beat my quality sites with their garbage - again and again. One month in - getting heavy traffic, next month out, than back again ... even after 24 months i don't have stable positions. Bah!

Honestly, i can't see that keyword stuffing is just dodgy and not successfull with google.

g1smd

7:32 pm on Apr 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



By the way, there is no alt tag.

There is an alt attribute added to <img> and other tags.

Is that what y'all on about.

GrinninGordon

1:00 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)



Alt (or whatever, calling them attribute may may some go "whats that") tags work well if;

1) You use the keywords once or twice (depending on the number of images per page).
2) You only use them for keywords on jpg's and navigation gif's (very important)
3) If you close off any images (such as spacers) with alt="" if you are not putting text in.
4) If the alt text matches the image name (overlooked too often)
5) If the image is part of a hyperlink (like a navigation image) you also use the title="same keywords" in the href.
6) They are natural and read well (also really important) - don't make them just keywords, make the keywords surfer / user friendly.

Web_Player

1:14 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As has been stated by several others, The ALT attribute is used by major engines and for accessibility, so use keywords that read well and describe the graphic if it is missing.

Also, be sure to use the Title attribute not only on images but also links. Engines read the text close or near to the link for additional info. Also, new browsers use the Title attribute if present but older browsers only read the ALT attribute.

If you stuff these attributes with unrelated keywords, it can adversely effect your page rankings. If you use them to aid your viewer, you will have better overall results.

TheDave

3:06 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The first time I saw the benefit in using alt attributes in my <img> tags ;) was when I viewed my site with google\imode and it converted my nav graphics to their alt text and even recognized it as a nav bar. So I would definately use them, but as others have said, make them as relevant to the image as possible.

borisbaloney

3:56 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I prefer to use the alt sparingly. I have it on some images with keywords, and not on others to ever so slightly reduce page size. It is a minor factor in serps but it is a factor.

skipfactor

4:11 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



...close off any images (such as spacers) with alt="" if you are not putting text in.

I checked my site with an HTML validator and it gave an error for every alt="" on the page, shrugged my shoulders and replaced them all with alt="mycompanyname".

It sounds like I need "find & replace" everything back to alt=""?

Dave_T

4:38 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I found my site that was built entirely in JPEGs rank quite well accross search engines for a not to heavy keyword. I think that it weight more by Inktomi than by google.

I would use the keyword in the beginning of the phrase since it make sense that the algo could limit the amount of character for it. Somehow make the phrase so that it make sense for different browser compatibility, specially in an image link. Describe the page that you are linking to with your keyword in it.

Dave

GrinninGordon

4:53 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)



skipfactor

Don't believe all html validators. I use CSE to knock the dust off a page, then I use [validator.w3.org...] to do the real stuff. Often, I will see W3 approval, yet CSE still shows errors. I contacted CSE and to their credit, said they would include changes to stop this in their next update.

One problem I have is that "absmiddle" is NOT W3 approved. But I need to use it a lot on a number of sites otherwise some images look daft in IE5+ with just "middle". Also, I found that CSS can not handle multiple use of certain fonts I use to great effect on one particular site. So I use individual font tags (which is not w3 compliant).

But I do not think Google penalise you for this. Although I suspect they like good nearly W3 compliant html ;-). And alt="" is there!

g1smd

6:07 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



>> I checked my site with an HTML validator and it gave an error for every alt="" <<

It should not do that, alt="" is the recommended usage. Additional, in lists, for the bullet point images alt="*" is preferable.

skipfactor

6:19 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I knew I should have ignored it. CSE Lite online validator was showing all alt="" as errors a month or so ago, went back and checked again and they've obviously corrected their error. Back to nice, clean alt="". Thanks.

g1smd

6:36 am on Apr 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



I prefer [validator.w3.org...]