Question about PR and internal links for the experts ;)

[jojojo]

If you were to take a brand new site/domain and it had x number of high PR sites pointing to it's index page...

Does it make any difference if you were to leave it as one single page or if you were to add 10 pages of content and link back each page to the index page? Meaning does the PR of the index page increase simply by having 10 internal links now pointing back to the index page? Or does it not increase the index page's PR but now you have 10 pages with some PR that you can use to link to other sites/pages?

thanks

BTW - is there a certain time of day that the update happens at?

[killroy]

Please check out this post:
[webmasterworld.com...]

Read through to the second page from the start.

I made several long posts elaborating on the difference of website and webpage as in regards to PR.

In short. Every page has PR to give away. If they give it to your index page (no matter where they are) it'll help.

[jojojo]

Thanks Killroy, I read the entire thread and I still don't see a consensus.

Let me phrase this another way. If you take a brand new domain and you link two pr6 sites to that index page it will have x PR.

If you take the same domain and link the same 2 pr6 sites to the index page but you add 10 pages that link back to the index page - will the index page have a higher PR than the first case?

[mil2k]

You seem to be asking of imp. of internal linking to the home page. I don't know abt. PR but if you use your Keywords in the link text then it should help in your rankings in serps.

[Powdork]

There are sevral important factors here. Having links leave a page (the 10 links to 10 new pages in this case) has no negative effect on the page's pr whatsoever. The more links from a page the less pr it gives away to the page it is linking to. Each new page would have a pr defined by:
(PR * n)/x=Amount of PR Transferred to New Page
where n is the dampening factor and x is the number of spiderable links leaving the PAGE. This is way oversimplified, leaving out any logarithms.
When the new pages point back at the index page the equation is the same. So, the amount of pr being given back to the index page would be
x(pr * n * n)/x or just (pr * n * n) as long as there are no other links leaving the new pages.
Hope I got that right.

[jojojo]

So Powdork - the 10 pages WOULD boost the index pages's PR?

[Powdork]

It would seem so in theory. For more info check out ciml's post on themed pryamid link structure

[webmasterworld.com...]

[killroy]

Yes they will boost.

In fac they will boost teh most if the index page links to each one, giving them a tenth of its PR.

So lets say the two PR 6 links give the index page a PR of X. Then each of the 10 sub pages gets it's own PR 1 (dampened) plus 1/10th of the PR x of the index page. lets call these PR y sinc e they should be equal. So then we link each back to the home page. taht gives the home page 1/1 or PR y *10 additi0onally to PR x, which of course again increases the PR it gives to these subpages. through all iterations.

Ultimately any page linking in adds PR. And the best page to link to you is the one you jsut linked to and that ONLy link to you back. (and it if gets other incoming links like in your PR 6 example then even better)

could somebody please post a link to te official paper by Google regeardign the PR formula? (I don't have it handy)

[ga_ga]

I hope this link is okay

2.1.1 a fifth of the way in:

[www7.scu.edu.au...]

[doc_z]

One should add at least one additional page, otherwise the index page is a dead end and PR is wasted.

If you add N pages, each has one incoming link from the index page and backlinks just to the index page, then

- the PR of the index page is X/(1-d^2) + (d*N+1)/(1+d)
- the total sum of PR on your site is X/(1-d)+N+1

where d is the damping factor (wich is probably 0.85) and X denotes the incoming PR. Of course, PR is the real PR and not ToolbarPR which are correlated by a log scale.

If you have only an index page PR is only X+(1-d).

One can see that (if the incoming PR is relativ high) the main effect is already reached by adding one additional page. Obviously, every page increase the total PR of the site by one.

[Brett_Tabke]

>the 10 pages WOULD boost the index pages's PR?

But no more than the total pr on the site.

You have 10 pages that are empty. PR comes in to the site from inbound links. You can then share the pr among the pages by internal linkage, but you can't create it from scratch - you can only share the wealth. By sharing the wealth, you are increasing your chances of getting referrals because more obscure keyword phrases will now have more pr and hence, a higher ranking. It's always better to have 10 pages that produce 5 referrals a day, than 1 page that produces 50 referrals a day. eg: you want referrals coming in on 50 phrases and not just on one. share the wealth.

[killroy]

Brett> Far from me to contradict you, but isn't the wealth thepages? So by creatign more pages you Create more PR. and by creatign pages to link to your own index page you create inbound links to increase Pr on your index page. No matter if these pages are external or created by you.

After all the external pages submit to the same laws as your own, and by your argument couldn't "create PR from scratch" either.

According to the google papers, each pages has an inherent PR of 1 to give away.

[doc_z]

killroy

indeed, each additional page - as long as it is not a dead end - increases the total amount of PR by 1. However, the effect for the index page (if these pages are linked in the way described before) is small if there is already a least 1 page backlining to your index page, i.e. PR for the index page is just increased by d/(1+d) for each additional page. This is normally small compared to incoming PR.

[killroy]

"Normally" yes, but here quantity counts. That is why very large websites can have high PR without any incoming link benefits!

[doc_z]

Of course, very large websites can have high PR at some of the pages without significant incoming links. However, since the average PR is one (because of nearly no transferred PR from external sites) you will have a large number of low PR pages (probably ToolbarPR=0). (By the way: Therefore, you will normaly have problems to get your site spidered completly. But that is just a practical problem for Google's implementation and is not related to the original algorithm.)

However, you need a site with #pages >> 10.000 to get a high PR for at least some of your pages. Here we a talking about "x number of high PR" respectively "2 pr6 sites" and about less than 100 internal pages. In this case the effect (for PR) of more than 2 pages (index + one other page) can be neglected as can be seen from the calculation above (msg# 10).

[garylo]

So Powdork - the 10 pages WOULD boost the index page's PR?

The answer is yes. The more pages in a site the higher the overall page rank in the site. The more pages link to the index page, the higher the index page PR (all else equal)