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badgeruk
If you are constantly inputting the same KW combo, then what do you expect, not that i see major differences with any other search engine's, including MSN with the ink feed. It is a slow game, though to top out serps, you need to move decisively.
It seems that unless you run about 50 domains or more all interlinked and use hidden text and all other forms of spam, you have no chance of competing with the sites that are doing this and getting away with it.
So, even if you work hard on your site and do all the things to get freshbot to come back to your site regularly, it won't matter because your crowded out of the top results by a few dominating companies that seem to be able to spam with immunity.
Google needs to do more more than just let the algorithm catch it because it seems there are to many things that only a human review can catch.
When I search, I'm not looking for variety, I'm looking for exactly what I searched for. Plus, why would I want to do the same search over and over again if I found what I was looking for the first time I did it? If I want variety or something new, that's what page 2 is for.
It seems that unless you run about 50 domains or more all interlinked and use hidden text and all other forms of spam, you have no chance of competing with the sites that are doing this and getting away with it.
Mrguy, I must respectfully disagree. You can succeed, and you don't have to cheat. You can apply the cheater's own techniques, but do so in ethical manner. Content beats tricks in the long run, as does good, solid, old-fashioned seo.
disagree, completely - i've been running a site for a couple of years now, and it ranks for #1 on kw's between 3-6, anywhere from 1-10 on keywords on a one and two basis. ROI is 3-6 keyterms, specific hunted terms.
PR is not the be all and end all, i've seen PR2 pages, be infront of a PR6 page, becuase everything about it is more relevant to the K-phrase search, it just does not have the linking bias behind it, even Google isn't stupid enough to allow its PR ranking-as in high PR linking view of the internet to run its serps, if it did it would be gone so fast it would'nt be noticed.
G measures well over a hundred of so variable's, linking is a big part for Google, but nothing tops themed content < the most important part of any site design/construction
Did a search for a few keywords and every site had a PR of 5 or higher. What chance has a new site got of getting in the top 10 (excluding everflux).. NO CHANCE!
Why should a brand new site be top 10. In real life business it does not work that way.
If I open up BigDave's Burgers, it will not sell as many burgers in the first month as the local McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Dairy Queen, etc. much less sell more than the entire company. It does not matter how good my burgers are.
On the web, I have a much better chance as a small site to show up high, but it will take time. The better I am, the quicker I will get there.
I actually know of several sites, my own included, that made their debut at PR5. PR5 is not that hard, that is if you have anything worth linking to in the first place.
Yes, my site does come up #1 on numerous phrases and does well, but I've seen a drastic drop on several of the terms that I was in the top 5 in.
I was pushed down by sites that are so blatantly spamming it is not even funny.
While the can't beat em, so join em attitude is tempting, I would never do it becasue I have worked hard to get to where I'm at.
So, yes you can do well with a site even with a low PR, but it sure would be nice to get rid of all the junk!
Find your niche and go after it. Heck, some of our really large clients that aren't to flexible in terms of making SEO changes are turning leads for $500k purchases on $0.10 keywords on Overture. Those same terms are also often overlooked in the SERPs.
Other mega companies don't even want to try SEO. There is a fairly large percentage of MegaCorps that aren't even in the game yet.
If you put the work in you can do anything you want over time. Most of those at the top didn't get there overnight so most of us can't expet to get there overnight either.
If the PR6 decided to "go for it" it would win hands down.
But the PR6 probably shows for a more competitive search term in any case.
badger_uk
Yes it can be intimidating launching a new site especially the first. But it is the same for everybody no matter what line of business. OK some have loads of cash, but most squander it!
You have to work harder, more dedicated, create the best site. Start off with less competitive search terms.
Eventually it can be done, although not overnight.
agreed, i personally compete against PR9 and PR8, they don't care about cling-on site's that i am involved in because we create legacy, which promote them.
If you truely look at one key phrase per page it does not take a lot of imagination to get the point that so many site's/companies are trying to collect so much ROI from so little pages, which to me (not regaring ultra-competitive markets $ex, insurance, system failure retrievals, gambling < seriously exploited) is a heck of a lot to get into.
I can't think of a commercial based industry where you could'nt build at least a 1000 page website, that themed could not beat pretty much anything. Its all about choosing the target. Then building the weapon - no spam, basically a constant build over years - add - add - add, and the theory can't fail.
wholeheartedly agree with you. PR is a concept - a selling point and not a lot more. ATW, Teoma, MSN and many others interact in the SE market like most would not believe, Google to me is an important part, but a small part. If i targetted Google with the knowledge i have it would be like eating the potatoes, but leaving the vegtables, the meat, and the gravy - A.k.a not worth it. I just could'nt imagine a world where google will ever be able to supply the user with a one point searching solution. By far it's not good enough.
But I guess you know as well as I do, many build the weapon and don't know how to aim it ;
building the weapon and delivering it in a lethal and compelling dose is the trick, necessary in accomplishing the demands of successful SEM and optomization. Try to do one without the other is futile.
Targeting is the key, not just in content, links, page-structure, site-navigational structure, or pagesize < everything
It all counts, the closer that one gets to getting everything right the better it gets, i think the best i have ever seen is a PR2 page beat a PR7 page, but the PR2 page deserved its place - 100% on topic, you would only find it if you wanted to Q&A about it or buy it - the way forward.
Seriously though, I get to see a lot of logs in my job, for different kinds of sites with different kinds of marketing strategies and Google's popularity shows no signs of weakening. I agree with heini, furthermore even if MSN, Yahoo! and AOL turned off the lights, Google would still deliver most of the non-PPC traffic (content-free doorway sites excepted).
Anyway, Google said (Eric Schmidt, last year) that Google would become fresher. It did, hugely. Significant amounts of Web content gets updated daily in Google; most surfers wouldn't notice if Google didn't update for six months.
On the other hand, we do notice. We notice because of the great new backlinks we pick up each month. We notice because of the carefully crafted link text that we adjust each month. We notice because our new sites get PR they deserve. But, we're not the point. If you want to find a widget shop in SomeCountry then you'll find one.
Urm...GoogleGuy...the six months comment was just an "if". I'm not suggesting you should really hold off on updates for 180 days :-)
because maybe its better?
>> Why should a brand new site be top 10. In real life business it does not work that way.because maybe its better?
As for competition.. well, the only real competition is MSN.. ironically it's only Microsoft who are holding out against a virtual Google monopoly.
A site that has been around a while has been "tested" in the market - people know how much it is updated, know the real quality of the information and workd of mouth it and link to it.
There's more to a successful site than just great content at one time. Its reputation.
I remember when we asked a univeristy once to link to us. 6 years ago. They said the site looked great but wanted to wait a while to see how it developed. 1 year later they linked.
It makes sense for listings in Google proper to be to sites that have been around for a while. If you want to get quickly to the top you can hasten the communication process with Adwords.
It may just say something about the demographics of SE usage.
