Info: the company Z has trademarked the name only with an Inc. at the end. And the domain name does not have the inc. Other than that the name is pretty generic.
Thanks
Al W
If you're asking "Is is worth it to go through all this expense and aggravation and risk?" that's the type of answer that isn't known in many cases until the end of the case or dispute.
If you read the Domain Forum'sCharter [webmasterworld.com] you will see that it's against policy to provide specific legal guidance. We discuss legal issues only in the most general terms. Please read the Charter now so you understand the limitations placed upon responding to your questions as they are now framed.
Bottom line: With issues such as yours the only practical move is to consult with a lawyer. Even if you can't afford to retain a lawyer to fight the issues at least you should get proper legal advice.
The sale: I had to do this. This company is known for screwing people around (i found out later) and im too small to take a hit like that. If i dont do this, we dont eat. And eventualy im sure we will lose our house also.. Late fees and back rent / bills will take the $ no doubt, but whats important is it buys me time to move on to bigger and better things. Without the compensation, my business will not survive. And ive enjoyed doing this and have done too well to let this go now.
So there is no if, its when and how. And how would be learned from someone that has enough empathy to share an experience with me, that could enlighten my situation. I did read charter too, and that is why i left names and domains out.
<snip><Your upset is understandable. So are our rules. Let's leave it at that.>
[edited by: Webwork at 12:01 am (utc) on Oct. 4, 2005]
I'll tell you this much after reading your story, though: there are unfair people out there who
may feel they have the law on their side. If that happens, you best be prepared.
Bottom line: With issues such as yours the only practical move is to consult with a lawyer. Even if you can't afford to retain a lawyer to fight the issues at least you should get proper legal advice.
<sarcasm> Instead of worrying about what might happen if you sell "their" domain name, why not just pop round at night with a truck and help yourself to some of their inventory... if they owe you money then I'm sure the judge will understand it's not really theft...
</sarcasm>
Good luck, anyway :-)
"Is there any chance the other party could win this?"
"No."
"Good. Well quit corresponding with them then."
Six months later..
"Heres your bill for the last six months of letters we sent on your behalf."
"Hahahahaha."
I never initiate legal action unless its something obvious like a lack of maintenance causing an accident and I've been badly injured. Certainly I wouldn't while I'm ahead on the deal, because its the fastest way to end up behind. If there is any potential legal hassle, I'd let the guilty party initiate it on their dime. I mean you recouped your losses, what do you have to gain?
Hm. If you want to show good faith though, you best offer them any amount you made over and above what they owed you.
If you have a key to someone elses house it does not mean you can move in to it or sell it whenever you want to.
Good luck. If they get a good lawyer, and they can afford a better lawyer than you ;-) then they might also seek criminal charges against you.
<disclaimer> This is not legal advice - only an opinion </disclaimer>
Reading between the lines here - neither were they. :)
Its entirely possible the rightful owners of the domain are now in possession of it.
And to the one saying "why not take there inventory too." yea, ill get right on that, ever heard of a lein? Stealing products from their warehouse and holding a lein on something are not the same thing.
Should we not have the right to protect ourselves and our familys who suffer through this also? Specialy when i have given them multiple chances to settle this, and they chose this route. They will pay triple fold to me and they will not see that url again. The scumbag that ownes this operation will wish he had settled then.
It's too bad, i guess i'll have to pay, and they'll have to pay. I guess pulling the pin handcuffed was the only way here.
Protect yourself people. This happens a lot and some will make you feel like you cannot defend yourself. Sarcastic people stating i should pop around at night and take there inventory probably think the employees at Enron deserved what they got.
Dont allow big busines to push you around. Always keep your eyes open for ways to gain leverage if they decided to try and take advantage of you. I'm not saying rob them but secure your investement as they have theirs. And if all goes well everyone is happy. But if they stiff you then you are able to recover your losses at there expense.
The domain laws are against our consituational rights. The laws are setup so that big business gets what they want and we get the shaft.
<snip>
PFUNK
[edited by: Webwork at 5:44 am (utc) on Oct. 5, 2005]
And, congratulations of taking on these scammers and winning. Often people take a superficial look at a situation like this and assume the truth must lie in the middle and both parties are equally guilty. Thats a cop out of course. Saves thinking by people who have trouble thinking and wouldn't contemplate acting.
So many times the hard work that went into beating a scammer is actually held against you by the people who should be grateful. One of the people who attacked you over the stand you took might have been their next victim. They *never* think of that.
I agree there are some on here that take a high and mighty view of your actions and indeed mine, but why should we be expolited and pushed with the perps having no fear of a comeback?
Kind of sickening.
Until I read that, I was about to write that what you did was no different than making a copy of the keys to the company car, and then selling it for $7,000....
Basically, when you are wronged, you do have a right to sort it out yourself if you can. Even when there is the option of going to law to sort it out theres no obligation to do so. The difference between self help and stealing is that with self help they stole from you first.
If you'd just decided to help yourself to someone elses domain when they hadn't ripped you off, that would be stealing.
Think of it as a financial version of self defence.
Next time your phone bill is late a few months I hope someone from the phone company steals your car stereo...
Think of it as a financial version of self defence.
My thoughts, exactly. What set pfunk apart from other disputes I've encountered is s/he took
precautions in case a dispute arises.
FYI, registrars treat whoever is listed as the registrant owner as the legal owner, no ifs ands
or buts. They don't care what went on behind the scenes until they receive a notice of transfer
from a Court or an arbitration panel.
Domain name ownership has always been questioned and will continue to be so. Whoever shall
be deemed the "rightful owner" will depend on the facts gathered during its course.
The laws are setup so that big business gets what they want and we get the shaft.
Not every big business is able to legally get what they want, including domain names.
Don't get me wrong, I've been in the situation where I've been owed money and it sucks, I just don't think that doing something behind the back of the company you are doing work for and then selling off their assets is the best way to handle something like this.
I just don't think that doing something behind the back of the company you are doing work for and then selling off their assets is the best way to handle something like this.
Their assets?
Ain't domain names so darn unique? Their ownership is subject to question and dispute.
Who's to authoritatively say who "rightly" owns the domain? (if you know what I mean...)
"The domain laws are against our consituational rights. The laws are setup so that big business gets what they want and we get the shaft."
yup, all of those domain laws out there trampling on my constitutional rights...
>I'm certainly glad not too many people subscribe to your "self help" theory.
They don't seem to, do they? :)
Luckily most of the ones who do are judges. Its a fundamental principle of any legal system based on Roman law, (which would include the US and UK) although it hasn't always been looked on kindly. For more info see Violence in the Roman Republic. by AW Lintott (O.U.P. 1968).
