I received the following edited letter (edited for URL reasons) today.
basically I registered a high traffic domain name in the format of www.wwwtheurl.com so if anyone missed the dot it would redirect to my own site selling the same products.
I don't really want to get into the rights and wrongs as I know this is practised with thousands of domain names...check out freeserve for example.
Anyway this is the letter I received...
<snipped email>
Firstly
Why they hell can't the company contact me and ask nicely to discuss.
Secondly they want me to remove the site it goes to, send them a detailed letter explaining my actions (reminds me of school days)
Thirdly accept the letter and pay for all costs currently incurred by their client...no figures given...
I'm not looking to get flamed here but after some good advice if you chaps can help.....as to me this seems very heavy handed for a first contact.....
By the way they have like a 12 million pound advertsiing budget compared to my run from my home pc business...so I don't think money is there worries...
Personally the domain doesn't even bring in much traffic....200 a month if that....I'm just unhappy about the way they have gone about this....especially when the .co.uk is registered to another individual and points to a domain registration company......
[edited by: webdev at 10:25 am (utc) on Nov. 26, 2003]
[edited by: Woz at 10:53 am (utc) on Nov. 26, 2003]
[edit reason] No Emails please, TOS#9 [/edit]
all I can say is that if I was advising those people, I wouldnt have been so nice :)
get out while you can is my advice.
scare tactics are being used, so u may want to just hand the domain name over....
Shak
Can they really ask me to pay for the solicitor costs on first contact....I really can't be bothered for a measly 200 visitors a month to go through court etc... my family wouldn't be the happiest over Xmas...
The funny think is they are not asking for the domain back..they just want me to turn it off, explain my actions and pay there solicitors fees for sending me an email...i guess because I sell the same products as them..
Any guidance appreciated, should I just turn off the domain and ignore them...if I contact them and say go away or even say I'll turn off the domain and they reply they will want to charge again for another letter.....
I don't make lots of money and certainly don't have lots to go through a court....or keep paying for their letters being sent via email...
Why did you create the site?
The lawyers seem to completely understand your motives. Perhaps they will visit this site and see your own thoughts in print.
It doesn't seem worth it to me.
Goober
CompWorld
At the least it may be attempted passing off and if they have the budgets you say they have they certainly will have the copyright, IPR, trademark and etc lawyers available to them to defend their good name.
I advise you implement a conflict and pain reduction strategy asap before you get too damaged.
Its part of a competitive strategy that I believe in that you never go head to head with a dominant competitor unless they are significantly weakenned and you are strong ...
i.e. until they are no longer dominant ... your tactics given your size look to have been far to direct and visible to have escaped their notice and ..
if you dont have a legal defence that what you did is legally clean ... then you dont have a legal defence.
imho you do need some legal advice because if they wanted to set an example of you they will press for costs and they will not be tiny ones.
Suggestion: if you are uk join your local dti funded UK online for business group and ask for advice from their domain name specialist lawyers. Members of the UK online groups get initial advice free of charge so its worth doing before you respond to them.
I don't have a lawyer and probably can't afford one anyway...so ideally I'm trying to seek any help..
If I reply to them what should I say.....
Something along the lines of domain removed...apologies for the incident.. and leave it at that....
2. Contact them and let them know that you have done so.
3. Send them your logs showing that you actually took very little of their traffic.
4. Plead poverty.
I'm just unhappy about the way they have gone about this
If it were me, you would have got the same letter and the same legal bill. And I think I probably speak for the majority of webmasters. When it comes to protecting your hard work and carefully spent money establishing a brand, you take these things seriously.
TJ
Be careful. You are being asked to represent why you have done something. Whatever you write, they will use against you. I would like to believe that if you "fall on your sword" they may have pity, but don't count on it.
Spend a couple of dollars now on a lawyer now, to save a bunch later.
Good luck,
Goober
From what I know of business in general I think you may get away with pleading poverty as suggested before, handing over the domain and promising to never infringe on their trademarks/copyrights ever again, for the rest of your life, and forever after that. And you've very, very sorry.
That course of action is like pulling your pants down and bending over because they could use it against you... as stated by goober.
However, I suspect a good businessman would cut his losses on solicitors' fees, advise his solicitors that it's unlikely they can extract any money out of you as you don't have any, and walk away with a smug smile and a dinner time story of how some punk tried to mess with his trademark ... but we sorted him out.
It's up to you to decide if you want to take that chance but if you aren't going to use a solicitor I think your best bet is to plead guilty and ask forgiveness (and keep your fingers crossed).
They want me to stop using the name - No probs have done this)
Secondly they wanted and explanation - Done
Thirdly They want me to confirm I will pay any costs so far in using a solicitor.
On point three where do I stand......
Can they do this without contacting me initially to say take down the site or else they will get a solicitor and charge me.
What sort of costs can they charge for getting their solicitors to write an email...what happens if they want to charge me £10,000 for the email.
In their letter they state that unless I reply to them and take down the site by Friday they will issue court proceedings....so no issues at this point in time as the site has been removed
So am I now right or wrong in thinking as I have complied with their request things should get easier.
PS I can't afford legal advice at the moment so please feel free to pay for it for me if you state 'Get Legal Advice'
Check the uk trademark register online to see the status of their name protection
[patent.gov.uk...]
Armed with that
inital questions for the specialist internet legal advisor from uk online for business
1) do you have rights to the domain name you registered and started to use? or is it clearly an abuse of their name if they have trademarked it or if not because they have trading history with it?
2) do they have any legal right to threaten you with undisclosed costs in this way? and if not how do you avoid becoming liable for any of these costs.
3) if you do * not * have rights from question 1 then how can you realistically avoid costs and court if they want to attack you in this way ..
4) if in answer to question 1 you do have rights and they are using cease and desist and threats to frighten you off, what is your best course of defence .. or attack given that *if* you do have rights to the name you then could also choose to defend and continue your actions.
as before hope that helps but do get the free legal advice, its free and from a lawyer specialising in the internet ...!
you have no idea what people in here actually know about the law in your country and situation and they dont know the legal status of the other company and their name so read what is posted here with care and a pinch of salt.
A true gentleman as always :)
To put your mind at rest re paying solicitors costs.
If they don't accept the "it was a stupid mistake" line, I guess £250 as an average for sending you one letter.
Just be happy they aren't going for damages on top!
Having taken the site down, I would also offer to transfer the domain - since it's not worth anything to you now and you will almost certainly lose when it comes to a hearing anyway.
But I would not explain or apologize, and would not offer to pay any costs. Make it clear you have no money but will agree to transfer back the domain if they forget about the costs. I doubt they will go through the domain ownership dispute process and then sue you for damages over what is probably a fairly trivial amount of money (currently).
(Besides, if the keyword has any generic meaning then they could conceivably lose the appeal.)
robert
...copyright, IPR, trademark and etc lawyers available to them to defend their good name.
...and promising to never infringe on their trademarks/copyrights ever again.
