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Accidentally deleted domain

Do we have any claim?

         

sleet

6:18 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



In August our domain name (which we had for almost 2 years) was accidentally deleted. The company with whom the domain was originally registered was contacted and asked to renew the domain within the redemption period. We paid £150 + vat for this service, but after a couple of weeks were advised by the company that SRSplus were being 'very unco-operative', and that our money would be refunded and we were advised to sign up with a drop service and re-acquire it that way. We chose pool.com, after some research, and waited. The domain dropped on 1st October and pool was unsuccesful in acquiring it.
Is there anything at all that can be done now? Anyone any ideas why we were unable to re-register it within the redemption period?
The domain in question is our company name - we have the .co.uk and the .net, also the hyphenated .com. Do we have any 'claim' on our (ex) domain?

percentages

6:34 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Yes, you have a claim...but the question is how much it will cost in legal fees to get it back. If the new owner is a UK/Euro/US company/individual you probably will not have too much trouble.....if the new owner is resident of a nation less concerned with legalities then you might be in trouble.

I would hit the new owner with several tons of legal bricks, they need to understand immediately you intend to get it back and don't care about how much it costs in legal fees (even if you do care).

Most of the people that prey of expiring domain names are scum....a warning shot is not usually warrented....nuke 'em straight off the bat!

sleet

7:31 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



mmmm - Cayman Islands? Is that within US jurisdiction or not?

percentages

7:55 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The Cayman Islands are a British colony, part of the British West Indies.

Woah....IMHO The Cayman Islands means you are in trouble. Forming a company there is not too difficult, but obeying the rules associated with doing so legally is something that only the very serious can achieve.....means huge legal bills as these guys ain't gonna laydown their cards easily!

People who own companies in the Caymans play hardball...If your domain name is now held by a Cayman Islands corporation....I wish you luck, you will need it.

BlueSky

8:28 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You can try recovering it by either filing a UDRP complaint: [icann.org...] or file a lawsuit. The whole purpose of the redemption period is to give people ample time to reregister their expiring domains. If what you said is true that they didn't give you that opportunity, I think you have a valid complaint. It won't be cheap going through the UDRP process -- costs about $1500 USD. If you win though, I think you can file a lawsuit to recover your expense.

I recommend you contact the new registrant first though. Who knows he may not be attached to the domain and would be willing to give it back for the cost of his registration. Worth a shot.

Macro

9:05 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



slett, I'm assuming it's a .com domain and not a .au or some other specific country where you have no operations.

Bluesky seems to know his/her stuff.

UDRP is the way to go. But research it well first. I used the UDRP - and arbitration through WIPO - to reclaim a domain, and I didn't use lawyers. BUT of course standard disclaimer of I-am-not-a-lawyer, get-legal-advice always holds. It did cost me about $1500.

Read old cases of domain disputes. WIPO for example have a lot of cases in their online database. Read through a few. See what grounds people lost or won on. In brief you will need to prove

1. That you have an interest in the domain (having owned the domain before this may be easy to prove. If you have a trademark in that name it will help your case)
2. That the new holder doesn't have any interest. Do a whois, get whatever information you can on him. See if the word relates in any way to his business. (A little more difficult to prove, but if his main business is scavenging domains then it will be a piece of cake, Search arbitration records to see if his name/domain/nameservers etc featured in a previous case)
3. That the new holder is acting in bad faith. (This is the tricky part. He could claim that he's looking to start up a business with this name. What's very useful here is going through previous cases to see how others have proved part 3)

Good luck

teeceo

9:59 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"sleet" Let me say this, as a former (domain sniper) I can tell you that the best way to get a name back (should be wwwway less then $1500), unless it has a ton of "type in traffic" or its a one word url or something like that witch makes it very valuable, you should be able to buy the name back for $500 or less. Alot of the people who buy these domains use them for traffic or PR and if your old url has nether then you should be fine. How you pay for it is another matter alltogether (some here would be better at telling you how to go about that). As for the hardball stuff, if this guy does this for a living (and it looks like hes in it pretty thick) then a letter like that will only make him laugh and make him what to charge the hell out of you when you do come around to bargin with him for the name back. Also, one thing that will help you as you go forward is to try your best to take your emotions out of this, for this is now a business deal, its not like your getting your lost dog back. Thats my2cents.

teeceo.

P.S. Speaking of (take your emotions out of this)....."Most of the people that prey of expiring domain names are scum....a warning shot is not usually warrented....nuke 'em straight off the bat!"..... Now thats exaclly the emotions i'm talking about. Speaking with your heart and not with your head on this matter will get you nowhere.

And as for as (domain snipers) being "scum", that is just mean, untrue, and shows your "low intelligents". Expired domain grabing is not about (sticking up your a$$) its a business and not only that, the people who do this are not stealing from anyone, they are just picking up some property that someone else left out. In a sence, i guess you can say that they are the same as garbage men and bankers (both come around to pick-up un claimed realestate:).

p.s.s. "percentages"
I just had a look at your (Occupation): "Traffic Cop" no wonder your so mad:).

plumsauce

10:35 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member




it would also be wise not to lose sight of the
fact that there is a specific redemption privilege
that was refused to the registrant. surely, this
merits a complaint to icann, and is actionable against
the offending party, that being, it seems, SRSplus.

look on the icann site for the specific rules that
the registrars must operate under.

++++

sleet

10:45 am on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks to all you guys for your advice.

Bluesky - I have already emailed the new owner along the lines of 'we hope you will consider selling the domain back to us to avoid any formal dispute' - no reply as yet!

Macro - yes it's a .com and I have been researching cases as you suggested - which leaves me somewhat un-optimistic of the outcome - one in particular seems similar to my case and the complainant lost the case (btw against the same company that grabbed our domain)- I hope it's OK to post the url of the details, if not I'm sure a mod will soon delete it:

[arbiter.wipo.int...]

Teeceo - excellent advice, thank you

take your emotions out of this
. The domain did have PR4 but obviously this has gone now and no great amount of traffic; nor is it a one-word domain either; so don't know why it was grabbed. Suppose it's possible it could be used for a porn site though...

kevinpate

2:18 pm on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Sorry to be in a cynical mood, but am I the only one wondering whether the new owner of the domain in question is a lurker having a good chuckle as he adds another zero to a buy-back price?

I do hope you get it back, and at a reasonable amount.
I know I would not be happy if our domain had expired and someone else nabbed it up.

teeceo

7:24 pm on Oct 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"sleet" Keep us posted on the outcome and if you like, you can sticky my the url inquestion a I can tell you why it was sniped and maybe what the future(if not won or buyed back) holds for this domain. later.

teeceo.

sleet

6:10 am on Oct 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thanks again folks - will certainly keep you posted. Thank goodness we didn't use the domain in question for our nameservers - am currently checking all the contact details for domains we administer for clients and changing .com to .co.uk.

BlueSky

7:42 am on Oct 5, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Oh geez, he's one of the people who floods the net with search portals which eat up good domain names. If you do a search on the company name, you'll see he's an OpenSRS reseller and has a website offering name management for companies.

In that particular dispute you cited, the domain is descriptive/generic, and the complainant didn't register it as a trademark or meet criteria showing exclusiveness. This BVI company has a track record of grabbing generic named domains. They also appear to set up portals trying to legitimize use until a buyer is found. If you have a trademark on this name, it might be worth exploring more into his reseller activity to show he's really cybersquatting these domains. Doesn't appear this type of info was brought up in the other case.

If you cannot get it back informally, I think you might be better off just getting an attorney and filing a lawsuit against all three.