Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 34.204.173.45

Forum Moderators: buckworks

Message Too Old, No Replies

Tracking says item delivered. Buyer claims not.

Threatens chargeback, what now?

     
3:31 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:July 16, 2001
posts:2024
votes: 6


Buyer sent me an e-mail claiming he had not received his package. I checked the tracking and it showed his item was delivered over a week ago. He claims he never received it. He wants me to send a replacement package because it is "my responsibility to get the package there". If I don't sent it, he is threatening a chargeback on his credit card. This was a domestic transaction (USA) and tracking was via USPS Priority delivery confirmation.

Any advice? If I send out a replacement package, I would be breaking even on the transaction. If his chargeback is approved, I'm out a little money. Since this is an Internet transaction, are his chances of receiving an approved chargeback good?

3:55 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Dec 11, 2002
posts:65
votes: 0


Do you have sufficient confirmation that you can prove he received it? If so, you can do one of a few things...

1) Advise him you have a delivery receipt showing he received it.

2) If it seems he is trying to cheat you, remind him that if he requests a chargeback, as you have proof the package was delivered to him, you will have him charged with credit card fraud, and let him know it's up to 10 years in prison and up to $10,000 fine (Federal Law... credit card fraud is credit card fraud even if the cardholder performs it - which some seem to forget).

3) Send copies of the delivery receipt, etc to his cc company if he actually does go through with the chargeback.

4) Was it insured? If so and the delivery receipt cant prove who it was delivered to, then file a claim with the USPS. There is (I think...) a default insurance limit that comes with shipping the way you did, so you should at least get something back.

Hope that helps,
Rob

4:09 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 28, 2001
posts:1380
votes: 0


If you can't proove the customer didn't receive the package, it's up to you to either send another one or refund the money.

I hope you carefully reviewed the address where the package was reportedly delivered.

Here is a good example of why I prefer UPS.
1) The package would have automatically been insured.
2) It's up to UPS to do a follow up. Either they prove the customer received the package or they pay the insured amount.

5:20 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 25, 2001
posts:467
votes: 0


I'd suggest you politely refund his money and then blacklist him.

Sure, it may not be fraud. It could have been a USPS mistake, it could have been stolen from his doorstep or by a roommate or whatever.

But does it really matter? The guy's got bad voodoo on him. I'd say cut your losses as soon as possible and move on.

5:27 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:June 5, 2001
posts:2732
votes: 11


Call up the guys CC company and ask if the guy has filed complaints before... ooo do a credit check on him :D see what info you find out ;) i know people wont tell you that kinda stuff but its worth a try :D
5:50 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:July 16, 2001
posts:2024
votes: 6


Since the tracking link said the item was delivered, I called the local post office responsible for that mailing address. I asked the phone clerk to track down the carrier who delivers to that address. She had a word with him. The carrier recalled leaving it at the front door as the neighborhood seemed safe. If the buyer is telling the truth, then it was stolen.

dvduval, I have my reasons for not using UPS, but we can talk about that in another thread. ;)

But does it really matter?

You're right, it doesn't matter. I am considering giving him a refund. That way my reputation would not be tarnished in any way. But here's my other thought. If this is a pattern with the buyer, wouldn't another chargeback lead the credit card company to lose confidence in the buyer?

10:27 am on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 26, 2001
posts:1076
votes: 0


don't you require a signature with all deliveries? if not, you should do. without a signature, you have no proof they erceived the goods and they will almost always win with the chargeback.

golden rule no. 1 - only deliver to the cardholder's address
golden rule no. 2 - always get the cardholder's signature

>>If this is a pattern with the buyer, wouldn't another
>>chargeback lead the credit card company to lose
>>confidence in the buyer?

the buyer is their customer. the card company won't lose anything out of their customer's run of bad luck ....

3:14 pm on Feb 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 7, 2001
posts:608
votes: 0


I suppose it all gets down to risk tolerance, but if I followed those golden rules, my sales would go down 60%....

We sell to small businesses and they charge on their personal cards, so there is usually not an address match.

Getting a signature costs extra for residential delivery with UPS in the US at least... the 1.75 per package can increase the customer's shipping expense by 30% which can lead to abandoned carts.

When a customer claims that they did not get the package (really a pretty rare event for us, knock on wood), we've been going back to UPS and filing a claim - this enables us to reship the customer the item (signature required this time) without taking a hit (as long as the value of the package is <$100).

8:41 am on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

New User

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 7, 2003
posts:9
votes: 0


well, I actually bought two items from a seller. The shipping invoice states that two items were in the package but only one was there. This is evidence that sometimes the buyer is not lying when they report non-receipt of an item ordered.
10:58 am on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:May 21, 2001
posts:2149
votes: 0


You will never win in this dispute with the customker if they really charge it back.

I used to do a decent amount of mail delieveries by USPS with delivery confirmation. I never did signature required - and didn't get ripped off once - with probably 700 deliveries or so. I only had two people (that I can remember) claim they didn't get it - I copied the delivery confirmation info - as well as more detailed info of what it would have looked like (my packaging was much more elaborate looking than people expected) and never heard back from them.

Drugstore.com sent me a package that contained about a 7 pound device. All I got was the half of the cardboard box top. No return address, but I figured out it was them by looking up the zipcode I got with USPS delivery confirmation.

I called them and they replaced it. Stuff like that always bothers me - as I assume no one is going to believe me.

I also have two other packages that are in the middle of being researched. I have never had this problem until the last couple of months.

Delivery Confirmation is far from perfect.

lgn

1:16 pm on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

joined:June 18, 2002
posts:343
votes: 0


We are in a product sector where fraud is virtually nonexistent (ie. our charge back rate is less than 1/100 of 1%).

However 1 out of 500 USPS parcels disappears without a trace, even though it claims it was delivered.

USPS has a habit of dropping off boxes on doorsteps, when the customer is not at home, and I beleive that some of these boxes are stolen or were misdirected to the wrong address.

I always assume the customer is right, and put a claim in with USPS. Unless USPS can come up with a signature of the customer, they must refund your money. If by chance, USPS comes up with the customers actual signature, then you have a case of mail fraud.

4:46 pm on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 31, 2001
posts:286
votes: 1


USPS with Delivery Confirmation is far from perfect as said here. When this happens (once in every 500 pkg), we take a digital picture of our delivery receipt and send it along to the buyer, just so they know we are on the up-and-up.

After that, we play it by ear as to resolution. If in the end, we re-send the product with more expensive signature-options and if it costs us money, then so be it. Cost of doing business. Customer Service and going out of your way to be nice is everything on the internet.

6:21 pm on Feb 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lorax is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Mar 31, 2002
posts:7577
votes: 4


Customer Service and going out of your way to be nice is everything on the internet.

I'd have to second this. You've done your homework re: determining if the package was delivered or not and you still do not have absolute proof - re: customer signature.

Send him another item, with sig verification, and make a note in his customer record for future reference and determination of a trend.

But as this is the first incident, I'd err on the side of customer just to keep from causing a riff between you because you don't have absolute proof he received the product.

1:44 pm on Feb 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Aug 26, 2001
posts:1076
votes: 0


>>Getting a signature costs extra for residential delivery
>>with UPS in the US at least... the 1.75 per package can
>>increase the customer's shipping expense by 30% which can
>>lead to abandoned carts.

surely $1.75 isn't going to cause that much harm to a business? if business survival is that finely balanced, then something is wrong. you need to look beyond the additional $1.75 cost. play it right and you probably won't see any loss at all - make it work for you and the customer.

one lost package means one angry / disappointed customer who might not order from you a second time and might not recommend you to others, simply because you failed to deliver the first time. can you afford that loss of business?

you could tell the customers you require their signature (hence $1.75 extra) to ensure deliveries don't get lost and to help keep the costs of your goods down - make it clear that you do this for their benefit - if they perceive it as a benefit to them, they will normally like it.

you could hide the costs, partly in the costs of the goods, partly in other shipping costs. you could even swallow a small part of the costs yourself - after all, you'll make savings in time because you won't have to investigate lost orders and make claims against USPS / UPS / whoever and you will be less likely to lose recommendations and repeat business.

think it through carefully ...... remember you must always look beyond the $1.75 ...

2:27 pm on Feb 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:July 1, 2002
posts:1427
votes: 2


one lost package means one angry / disappointed customer who might not order from you a second time and might not recommend you to others, simply because you failed to deliver the first time. can you afford that loss of business?

Actually, I find that the most loyal customers are the ones you had problems with, but took a hit to make sure they are happy.
People feel it. Every company seems nice when things go smooth, it's when the problems arise you see the true face.

I'll give you an example of an order I processed last week. One of the orders my distributor shipped was supposed to contain two items.
When the customer received it: one item was broken, the other one was missing. Well, that's about as bad as it gets... Not quite, the missing item suddely became out-of-stock and I could not even order it again.

After a few e-mail exchanges with the customer, promise to refund her money if she decides so, promise to replace the borken item without the need to return it first, and offer to pick another item in place of a missing one with a greater value - that's the response I got:
=======
Thank you so much for your pleasant service.it doesn't get any better that
you reply-below. Thanks for being so nice.

I will be happy to wait until the <widgets> are in stock.if
I haven't received them within the next 60 days, I will choose another item
and email my choice then.

Thanks for sending the replacement.

Your satisfied customer,
<the name>
=======

That's an e-mail from a customer who hasn't even received anything yet!

My distributor is really bad and I have problems with at least one order out of 20. I don't ship anything directly so I don't have any control over fulfillment, so I have to compensate with good customer service.

I imagine it would be tougher if I was selling DVD players and digital cameras, but still, a problem with the first order does not mean a lost customer. It's all in your attitude.

lgn

3:48 pm on Feb 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Full Member

joined:June 18, 2002
posts:343
votes: 0


Yes drop shipping sucks.

Distributers have a different state of mind.

They are used to shipping to retailers, and if one or two items get broken in a $5000 shipment, to the retailer, its no big deal, they just replace it in the next order. Retailers come to
expect this. Distributers ship in volume and they are not big on packaging shipments all that
carefully.

Send one or two items to a consumer, and the items
are broken. It a very big deal, and it effects your reputation.

Thats why we carry practically everything we sell, and avoid drop shipping like the plague.