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Paypal "Website Payments Pro?"

Functional Merchant Accounts

     

andmunn

3:54 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Anyone heard of the new paypal payments pro? Seeems like an ideal merchant solution -

[paypal.com...]

Curious to see what everyone thinks. It looks like the user can stay on your site - and all that good stuff... Is there something im' missing?

Andrew.

The Contractor

4:20 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think this could be really big for them. $20 a month is cheap for what basically offers a merchant account and payment gateway.

Badger37

4:55 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Do you get an HTTPS page and a padlock though?
Looked at the demo and I can't see how?

abbeyvet

4:57 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Bummer, you have to be US based :(

The Contractor

5:04 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Do you get an HTTPS page and a padlock though?

I didn't read it thoroughly but I doubt you would get a SSL certificate. It's no different from any other merchant account in that respect - you have to get your own SSL certificate. Buy a GeoTrust at ev1servers for $49 and you are all set. Like I say $20 a month is cheap.

pp_rb

5:40 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Because PayPal does not host the pages for Direct Payment transactions, you would be responsible for securing those pages.

The Express Checkout pages (for users who have accounts and select the PayPal option) would be hosted on PayPal's secure servers. Your customers would go to PayPal to log in, select their shipping information and approve the payment, and would be returned to your site to complete the purchase.

Brett_Tabke

6:08 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



HOLA MOLA - this changes everything.

...digesting

andmunn

6:27 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My question is - how is paypal able to "manage" this wihtout having users sign up with a "real merchant account". That is, what differentiates them between 2checkout, etc... Where there are "strict" rules you have to abide by -- i.e.// you have to state that 2checkout is an "authorized" reseller, etc...

I'm blown away by this, much like Brett, and is something i have been looking forward to... yet, am a little skeptical right now.
Andrew.

blend27

6:29 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



This is so interesting; I always wanted to integrate Pay Pal in to shopping Cart, but hesitated due to Customer leaving the site. Now it looks like I will give it a try.

pp_rb

6:30 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The "rules" that I am aware of:

1. You must apply and be approved for this feature before you may use it.
2. You must integrate Express Checkout if you integrate the Direct Payment API. Refer to the "Website Payments Pro Business Rules" section of the Integration Guide for more details.

iblaine

6:45 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Unless I'm missing something, Paypal is only setting up merchant accounts at industry standard rates.

Each transaction will incur the normal PayPal processing fee of 2.2% to 2.9% per transaction.

I currently receive 2.37% + 30 cents and $20/month through my merchant account. Good for paypal for expanding their business but I don't see anything revolutionary going on here.

(added) Found this in their press release:

In addition to Website payment processing the application enables vendors to accept payments via alternative means such as the phone, fax, and mail orders. A virtual terminal is provided for these transactions.

That feature would be nice - there really is no need to buy some hardware so you can swipe a card or punch in numbers over the phone - this can easily be handled through a web app.

pp_rb

6:54 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Some of the differences may include:

- No setup fee
- Acceptance of 4 major card types, with one rate for all Direct Payment credit card transactions
- Fees as low as 1.9% + $0.30 for Express Checkout transactions

You can refer to the fee calculator on the PayPal website to compare costs.

textex

7:24 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Will this work for subsciption services and password management?

ectect

7:37 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is going to be HUGE and cause a real shake up.

Bit of a shame that it appears that the Express Checkout is all tied in with the Direct Payment Transactions and you can't turn that off (my understanding that is).

Small gripe over something that is really quite exciting

nipear

7:48 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is not going to fly until they remove the requirement for using Paypal "Express Checkout" along with their merchant service. If you read through their implementation guide, they are requiring you have a Paypal express checkout button above everything else and before you collect any info from your customers. They also require you to have the following text with the Express Checkout Button before your regular CC checkout.

Fast, Secure Checkout with PayPal

or

Save time. Checkout securely. Pay without sharing your financial information.

That is way over the top. They also are trying to say you can't use any info you collect unless the customer specifically agrees to it. So no offline catalogs to customers or follow up emails according to their terms.

But the real problem is the whole integration of express checkout into the standard shopping cart set up. You need to intergrate 3 parts of your cart with paypal. You need to capture shipping addresses etc. from paypal without going back to your shipping info page, and on and on. I wouldn't even want to deal with the headache that would cause. Yeah, one click of the back button would do wonders to this system...

Right now we have paypal integrated into our cart, but we get the entire order info before sending them off to paypal. And I'll tell you that we have a huge % of abandoned carts once they leave to paypal. There are so many things that can and do go wrong to lose customers and mess up orders. So there is no way I'd push paypal as our first choice of payment...

otc_cmnn

8:07 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Great news for the little guy and start ups.

I wonder what their verification policies will be. Will they only approve transactions that are shipping to the CC holders verified address? Maybe that is how they are minimizing their risk. Or will merchants be ablt to create their own tolerance levels...

Brett_Tabke

8:14 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



> requiring you have a Paypal express checkout button

Yes.

> above everything else

Not the way I read it. Just along side it. If you offer another payment processor - they want to be there too. That is not much different than any other processor like 2checkout or worldpay (both of whom have strict new policies in the same vien)

> They also are trying to say you can't use
> any info you collect unless the customer

Where is that said in the manual?

> whole integration of express checkout

Not a problem and I am sure there will be many 3rd party solutions out there in a heart beat.

I think this entire setup is pretty awesome - it is a bit difficult to setup intially, but certainly no worse than a payment gate with authorize.net or verisign (both of whom are like root canals).

> what differentiates them

Half the price of equiv payment processors like 2co and 50 times the quality of service. I've worked with thousands of companies on the web. Of those, the single most satisfying, professional, problem and hassle free has been hands down PayPal.

> Great news for the little guy and start ups.

absolutly. I think it takes Ebay to the next level.

pp_rb

8:49 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



They also are trying to say you can't use any info you collect unless the customer specifically agrees to it. So no offline catalogs to customers or follow up emails according to their terms.

Since the customer is returned to your website before completing the payment, you could put your opt-in on the final review page before the customer finalizes the payment.

The process may look something like this:
1. Customer clicks "checkout"
2. Customer sees the first page of your checkout, which has Express Checkout, and probably also the first page of your credit card checkout
3. Customer clicks on Express Checkout button and is taken to a PayPal page with a login screen
4. Customer logs in, scans the page displaying shipping address and funding information, and clicks "Continue" to return to your website
5. Customer sees your final review page displaying shipping address, item cost, shipping cost, and final total, as well as a checkbox saying "Click here if you want to receive our catalog"
6. Customer clicks "Pay" (on your page!) and the payment is complete.

Right now we have paypal integrated into our cart, but we get the entire order info before sending them off to paypal. And I'll tell you that we have a huge % of abandoned carts once they leave to paypal. There are so many things that can and do go wrong to lose customers and mess up orders.

Some issues can be caused by the fact that the buyer has already gone through multiple steps on your page, and depending on your PayPal integration, the information they entered earlier may not match what is being pulled up in their PayPal account. Express Checkout solves many of these problems by keeping the checkout flow as short as possible, and avoiding repeated entry of the customer's information.

blaze

8:50 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



The really frightening question (at least for non US merchants):

Is this because they are being forced to migrate away from the paypal button?

Look at what 2checkout / Paysystems have had to do in order to be compliant with Visa / Mastercard.

Why wouldn't the same happen to PayPal? Why are they immune?

This would be an immensely sad day for capitalism if a cartel of credit card companies can knock PayPal over.

growingdigital

9:06 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



My small biz clients are going to love this!

Setting up a merchant account, and working with Authorize.net et. al has always been one of my biggest challenges.

The Contractor

9:45 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Half the price of equiv payment processors like 2co and 50 times the quality of service. I've worked with thousands of companies on the web. Of those, the single most satisfing, professional, problem and hassle free has been hands down PayPal.

Absolutely agree with this even though I do have a merchant account along with authorize.net. I never have had problems with PayPal. Most (not all) people who sign up for a merchant account and payment gateway are going to either deal with merchant account setup fees ranging from $0-250.00 along with monthly fee's ranging from $20-50.00 and then have to add a payment gateway for another $10 or so a month. Many merchant accounts also have minimum commitments ranging from 1-3 years.

I think PayPal is going in the right direction for sure. Also, how many people get fraudulent orders through PayPal compared to their payment gateway? I have NEVER had a fraudulent order from PayPal and have had many from other gateways.

andy_boyd

10:18 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



To say this is big news is an under-statement ... but it is a pity that (at the moment) it is not available out side the US. WorldPay, Streamline, Protx et al now have a serious new competitor and that can only be good for us - the merchants.

nipear

10:56 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't see this as earth shattering by any means. All paypal is doing is selling co-branded merchant services with wells fargo. And for Paypal to make any money they need people to pay through the paypal website and not through the merchant services provided by wells fargo. And thats why you MUST also add the PayPal "Express Checkout" at the beginning of the checkout process. I'm sure it will get another 5-10% going through paypal vs. a normal credit card transaction.

AlwaysWorkin

11:02 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Look at our list of shopping carts that are already integrated with Website Payments Pro.

This is a dead link for me, anyone getting the list of carts it works with? This may be worth looking into for OSC.

The Contractor

11:07 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



And for Paypal to make any money they need people to pay through the paypal website and not through the merchant services provided by wells fargo. And thats why you MUST also add the PayPal "Express Checkout" at the beginning of the checkout process. I'm sure it will get another 5-10% going through paypal vs. a normal credit card transaction.

Not sure what figures you are basing those assumptions on, but I don't see how you think they are going to get "another 5-10% going through paypal vs. a normal credit card transaction"?

Where do you get the 5-10% per transaction figure? I think they can do very well at $20 a month + 2.2% to 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction - why couldn't they? I can only imagine the discount rate they are getting. I see nothing wrong with the "Express Checkout" and would use it myself in many instances....

whoisgregg

11:19 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member whoisgregg is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



The real problem with any Paypal product is that they handle consumer fraud differently -- and stupidly -- compared to traditional merchant accounts.

Paypal is great until you have a customer try to defraud Paypal while buying something from you. Tell me how great Paypal is when all funds in and out of your account (not just the "suspected fraudulent" transaction funds) have been "frozen" for 3 months with no explanation and no recourse.

Until they play by the same established rules and policies of other traditional payment processors, I would never run a business that depended on Paypal. Heck, I couldn't even sell a few personal items this year on eBay without getting burned.

(Of course, I know I'm in the minority. I also know I've never had the same problem with my business taking credit cards.)

iblaine

11:52 pm on Jun 17, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I believe the '5-10% per transaction figure' is derived from the idea that paypal offers little beyond a normal merchant account. I'm still waiting to hear why this is big news. I have a merchant account and my rates are equivalent to what paypal is offering. Why should is switch to paypal?

FYI, 2.2% to 2.9% + $0.30 is not competitive pricing for online transactions.

pp_rb

12:33 am on Jun 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



This is a dead link for me, anyone getting the list of carts it works with?

In the URL it uses for the link, change "ProCarts" to "ProCart" and it should work.

AlwaysWorkin

2:48 am on Jun 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



In the URL it uses for the link, change "ProCarts" to "ProCart" and it should work.

Thanks. ;)

deft_spyder

9:34 am on Jun 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Glad to see they took my advice :)

I was in the focus group testing for this, and while they thought i was there as the rep for a car parts company that did some online stuff, they then learned I was a online marketer with 30+ sites, and they got real interested in my input.

I told them that going to paypal and having the whole site change was a shock to the user and needed to be seamless... at that point we were talking about paypal merchants being able to tailor the paypal page design.

Seems like they got it worked out =)

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