Catching the Crooks

Banks, Police, Credit Card companies NOT interested?

[jgar]

There is an address in London to which goods are currently being delivered, purchased on the Internet with stolen card info, from a number of internet retilers. The address is an empty house, and the goods are being signed for and taken elsewhere. The people ordering this stuff gave a mobile phone number. If you call that number, they just mock you, because they know they won't get caught.

Are the police interested - Maybe, but they cannot do anything until it is proven the card details are stolen. So, we go to Worldpay - are they interested? No, they are "not set up" to work with the police like that, or inform the poor cardholder that their card is being used by someone else. Could they perhaps at least inform the customer's credit card company? "No, sorry". What does the credit card company say? Well, it's too much bother for them too.

This, and other experiences, have shown us that despite all the talk about security, when it comes down to it, the "system" is not set up very well to actually catch the criminals. Rather, it tries to get the retailers to be on their guard, and make them pay with chargebacks if they're not vigilant enough.

Meanwhile, anyone considering committing such a crime doesn't really have much to fear ...

Does anyone else find this a bit frustrating?

[paladin]

It is very fustrating.

It was recently released in an article that certain police departents will not even look into internet fraud complaints unless the value of the fraud is over a certain dollar ammount. I am purposly not putting the exact number here, but it is more then what most people make in a month.

Another example of how the system still needs work is the following story:

"Joe" got a call from his credit card company asking if he was in NY city.

He said that he was not and asked why.

It turns out that Joe has joind those countless others who's credit card number was stolen and being used. He asked the credit company where the purchase was taking place so that he could call the local police, but they would not give him the location. He asked if they would call the police for him, that way they do not have to give him the location, yet again they refused.

Does anyone think that the crook with the stolen card was waiting at the store while this conversation was going on between Joe and his credit card company? If so, I have a bridge I want to sell you...

[Morocco]

Its amazing how frustrating that can be

[bufferzone]

Part of the problem lies in the fact that most governments and government institutions have not discovered that the industrial world is no longer and that in the information society, a new set of rules apply and a new scope of possibilities exists.

If something is to be done about this, “the industry” must do it (our)themselves. It the right people were to create a database with information on Crooks (IP-addresses, Names, Credit Card numbers, and the liks) I think it would have an effect on some of them. If we wait for the governmental layer to act, we will all be old men before it happens

[PCInk]

I phoned the police once and they were not interested in credit card fraud.

I phoned them again and reported that I had had money stolen. They quickly took some details. Later, they took a statement. Turns out that the person at that address already had a criminal record. The statement simply went on their file.

I was told that the more information they have on file, the better for convicting a person.

It is interesting that they would not investigate 'credit card fraud' but were interested in 'stolen money' or 'stolen goods'.

[Morocco]

I think there is a limit nat which they actually do somehting. The Feds ussually get involved when the credit fraud excedes 10k. I think I came across that here.

[CernyM]

I was a victim of identity theft earlier this year. Crook managed to steal roughly $35000 using "instant open at the store" type credit in four days.

Couldn't get anyone interested in pursuing it.

The only people that actually got angry about it was Wells Fargo, and that was only because the local jewelry store that gave the thief credit overrode the security warning that I had placed on my credit file.

The whole affair was a royal hassle to clean up, though it did have one particularly amusing moment. Immediately after I found out about the theft, I put security notices on my credit files. The notice required any potential creditors to call me at my home telephone number before granting credit. I got a call from some clerk at a guitar store 500 miles away who asked, "are you here at the store trying to get credit to buy a $1400 guitar?"

If it was possible to speak "..." into the phone, I certainly would have.

[nutsandbolts]

Wowsers CernyM! Hope everything is fine now....

True about Worldpay - they don't really care about fraud orders. After all, if you process them and someone does a chargeback - they still get paid.

Tried e-mailing a local police division in Florida (on their report a crime form) after some guy ripped my little store off by a few hundred dollars (quite a lot of money for poor old me!) but never received anything back from them. Not even a thank you, we'll look into it. Darn it. I had to eat baked beans for a week....

[bcc1234]

If something is to be done about this, “the industry” must do it (our)themselves. It the right people were to create a database with information on Crooks (IP-addresses, Names, Credit Card numbers, and the liks) I think it would have an effect on some of them.

I like the idea, but do you think that would be legal?

[bufferzone]

I’m not sure, but something, more or less, like it is being don at incidents.org. They have a top 10 list over IP addresses doing hacking and other bad stuff on the net. Firewall administrators around the world use this list to block these IP’s from accessing anything.
This is not quit the same, but I think most countries have organizations/companies that provide information on customers who doesn’t pay or have a lot of dept. I think it’s doable within the law and with the right kind of muscle behind I think a lot of companies would be willing to pay for this service

[bcc1234]

Not just the IP, but all personal info: name, address, the details of an order...

IP address or parts of a CC number won't do much, but if your name appeared in the "crook's list" - you wouldn't want your friends to search for your name on Google :)

I bet that would be a much stronger deterrant.

[PCInk]

There is at least one company in the UK that does do this service. They give you the name used, address, phone number, email address and details on if they are a chargeback, fraud or code 10 failure.

They get around the law by requiring suppliers to notify customers in advance (in the terms) that they will be added to this database if there is a problem with their order. Also, they have registered with the data protection act.