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is going international really worth it or is it too risky?

         

webmasterjedi

4:59 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



the company i work for is thinking about going global and shipping out side the US. what do you guys think?

Shane

7:08 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Your post needs more details such as:

1. How hands on is the management? (Can they take the time or empower someone to vet who gets an order filled and who gets a sorry, no Nigrean orders .....)

2. How reasonable is it to ship they product? (weight, bulk, time sensitive)?

3. Why the expansion? (Need more revenue? Not doing well in the states? See huge potential?)

4. What is the competition like outside the states?

Sorry to be harsh but it is like asking what are my chances in the lottery this weekend? I really don't know, how many tickets are you going to buy?

Give us more detials, we give you more of an answer.

..... Shane

JonR28

7:26 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I do international out of my basement. It's easy. Just don't take any orders from Nigeria and you are set. We've shipped to Sweden, Ireland, the UK, and of course Canada.

jweighell

7:41 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I don't know what you're selling, but can your customers get what your selling in their own country?

At a guess, high shipping costs are going to be invloved for people outside the States. Is a customer going to be able to justify paying higher shipping costs for your products?

I'm actually in the UK, but generally speaking, I wouldn't even think about buying something from outside the country as I know I'll probably be able to get it without paying a premium for shipping.

JonR28

8:52 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



USPS ships 4-9 days for $9 anywhere in europe as long as your package under one pound (0.45kilograms). I sell Cotton Wearable Widgets so shipping to other countries is fine. Especially since they are so much cheaper here and our style is so much... well don't want to start any international disputes :), if you are shipping small items its no problem selling to europe.

Just don't ship to Nigeria and your fine.

danieljean

9:04 pm on Jun 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



and of course Canada.

Which brings up my point: why not start with just North America? Shipping won't cost a fortune and take forever, the culture is not that different, similar timezones, easy transition for payment systems...

Oddly, most US companies completely ignore Canada, or make incredibly incompetent attempts to sell to us. You would realize this if you had tried entering an alphanumeric postal code when the!@#%^$ webmaster made a javascript function to reject all but 5 digit zip codes. Or being asked to enter your state, even after specifying your country is not in the US.

I imagine there's a few out there wondering why even after they announce that they will ship to the great white north, they still don't get any orders :)

About culture... shoe sizes are different, the rest of the world mostly uses metric, and the puns you use might not be funny outside the US or Canada. Furniture that is organized by room may not fit in the same category in another country. What seems like plain english for you may not be so easy to read for my fellow frenchmen. Can you simplify without dumbing it down?

Usability testing becomes even more important. No matter how careful you are, you can still miss things that will confuse foreigners.

Good luck :)

jsinger

2:29 am on Jun 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Keep in mind that MANY major U.S. retailers don't ship out of the U.S. One big pain in the neck when we tried it. Last time I looked, Wal-Mart.com didn't even ship to Canada where they have stores.

jsinger

2:35 am on Jun 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yep, still not even Canada:

"The Walmart.com Web site only ships orders within the 50 states, APO/FPO military addresses as well as major offshore territories and protectorates of the United States. All prices are in U.S. dollars, and we do not accept checks, money orders or credit cards issued by foreign (non-U.S.) banks.
At this time, we do not ship to Canada, Puerto Rico or other destinations outside the U.S. For more details, see Where can I have my order shipped?

If you are looking for information about Wal-Mart Stores outside the U.S., please visit Wal-Mart International Operations."

Shane

4:41 am on Jun 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member




One of my pet peeves is that Canadian customs will charge import tax on anything over $20 Canadian shipped into the country. So, a $20 US item get $2 or $3 Canadian import tax and then a $5 handling fee for collceting the tax. So $20 US becomes $28 Canadian and then add $8 to make $36.

A $10 US item gets in for $14 Canadian and no taxes added. It makes a big difference.

So I guess the point is know the import rules of where you are shipping. They could affect your business.

..... Shane

lgn1

3:02 am on Jun 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Our buisness is in Canada and the bulk of our customers are American.

The great thing about having a buisness in Canada and shipping to the US, is that customs is not an issue for shipments under $200 American.

US Customs have something called sections 321 which basically says, its not worth our bother to collect the small amount of duty on any purchase under $200 US currency. So our US customers get their parcel with no duty, and no state taxes. Also Canada Post and USPS has integrated the postal system, so that shipping rates from Canada to the USA is timely and quite reasonable.

Canada Customs actually does us a favor, by sticking with being pennywise and pound foolish by collecting miniscule duties and a $6.00 processing fee on shipments over $20, which still is a money losing propostion for the government. This puts us at an advantage from our American competition.

We get to keep the cake and eat it to.

RedWolf

6:58 pm on Jun 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I make and sell jewelry online which is a high fraud item for international orders. I only accept CC orders from Canada, Western Europe, and Australia. I call the issuing bank to confirm the shipping address. So far it has been good, and one of my best collectors is in Switzerland, but it is a pain to verify the first orders.

Plus depending on the country, there might be restrictions on the items you can ship there, and by what means you can ship them. For example Canada and Australia have restrictions on jewelry through the postal system. Canada will allow some small items through if they go registered mail, otherwise they are prohibited.

aleatrix

10:07 pm on Jun 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have been shipping internationally for about 4 years. There are several issues involved besides those previously mentioned.

First, of course, as others have mentioned, is the problem with the exchange rate, VAT and import taxes. My experience with these has been that if people really want what you have to sell, they're going to pay for it despite the above.

Second, is your company willing to spend a lot of time filling out paperwork and checking on harmonizing tariff codes? I have a wonderful, helpful contact in the U.S. Department of Commerce in our area whom I can call to find out what kind of materials and products are allowed by various countries. Once she even called the Japanese Consulate in New York for me! (Yes, I know it's all on-line, but looking through it can take hours, especially when you have a hand-made product using a variety of materials).

This aside, it takes at least an hour of concentrated work to fill out all of the customs forms and get them put in their proper places. If you're shipping to Canada, you have to send the NAFTA forms, too, so they get a small reduction in customs fees. I finally added a handling fee to all export orders because of the time and special packaging materials involved.

During the time we've been in business, (regular orders requests from Nigeria aside) we've received only two fraudulent international orders. I never charge the customer's credit card until I'm ready to ship. This takes about one week, and, usually, by that time, any stolen credit cards have been reported and the transaction will be declined.

I've noticed that some companies selling luxury items or items that are frequest theft targets have policies of accepting credit cards only from those countries with good records on credit card transations and requiring wire transfers or Guaranteed Letters of Credit from others.

I definitely think international orders are worthwhile provided you use caution and common sense.

smayler

7:50 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



The great thing about having a buisness in Canada and shipping to the US, is that customs is not an issue for shipments under $200 American.

Thanks, lgn1!

I always wondered why my US customers never complained about the tax. Now you answered it!

In terms of shipments from Canada to UK, I had very unpleasant experience with duty fees. They asked for so high fees (2/3 of product price) that many customers refused to receive products. I had to abandon products since it was even more expensive to return them back.

Lesson learned.

Small items, which can go via regular mail are ok. There are always some fraudsters who claim not received products, but never so many of them.

Morocco

7:52 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



You can easily appeal and win a fraudster who claims they never recieved through order tracking

topher

9:45 pm on Jun 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I have shipped to the UK, France, Germany, Greece, Japan, Australia, Canada, Czech Republic and China. (Less than 50 packages total so I'm no expert.) The only problem I've had was a customer who refused a shipment and then claimed he never got it - and then requested I cancel his order because he "just" found the same item cheaper at you-know-who-azon.
One thing I won't do anymore is ship any way "less" than Airmail - no more "economy" - too much time in transit for things to get stolen, lost, broken. I really prefer USPS Global Priority or EMS - trackable.
I've never been defrauded either but that's probably only a matter of time.
I just shipped a US$700.00 order to the UK - regular customer so I'm not worried except I wince when I think of the possible customs duties to pay on her end!

lgn1

12:18 am on Jun 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Yes Shipping from Canada to the UK can be a nightmare.

If you thought Canada Customs was bad. UK Customs is a nightmare.

UK customs ussually performs the following blunders:

a) charge duty on the shipping cost,
which is not allowed for consumers purchases.

b) Mis-clasify everything as an luxury item (high duty).

c) Charge duty on items originating from EU countries,
and thus subject to lower duty and VAT reductiions.

I ussually have to inform our UK customers to contact
customs to have their entry corrected and fees reduced.