Forum Moderators: buckworks
Didnt give bidder ID details.
Bidder doesnt have a paypal account so wont pay that way, would like to arrange another method.
Wants to have the item shipped to an address in the UK, he's in germany.
Its a surprise gift for his little brother. (No one has ever said anything like that before)
The email address is hotmail and its a nonsense address.
Wants a quick reply to all emails.
Me think it stinks, I does.
Im going to suggest that he wires the funds to a western union branch near me, is that the safest bet?
I think you should require payment in hand before you send anything. Don't worry, you're not the only one who thinks they might be a bit jaded.
Im going to suggest that he wires the funds to a western union branch near me, is that the safest bet?
Probably - but don't your auction terms say what payment types you accept? If he doesn't want to work with one of those, then he should never have bid and you don't have to sell to him.
It doesnt say Western Union, but nearly every kind of under sun except guinea pigs taken in barter.
Thats another pointer im worried about, you see I take credit cards......
In the future though, you might want to put some terms in your auction text that if the bidder lives or wants the merchandise delivered to a location out of the country that they must contact you first or you reserve the right to reject their bid.
Bidder doesnt have a paypal account so wont pay that way
You don't have to have a paypal account to pay via paypal.
Wire transfer would be the best bet as it can't be reversed.
All very amusing
But then I got an email for my computer display from some guy in the U.K. who wanted to pay through paypal and have me send the display to his brother for his birthday in the Netherlands. We exchanged emails back and forth for a little while and when I told him that I would only accept wire transfer for that or only ship to the verified paypal address he immediately backed out and said he found a cheaper deal instead.
At that point I started wondering if it was a con but wasn't sure. But then a few weeks later I put my Powerbook up for sale as well and sure enough I got the EXACT same email that the guy sent to me about the display. Except that it was from a different user and he changed the words of what the auction was "powerbook" as opposed to "display". The rest of the email was word for word the same. He wanted to ship it to his brother for his birthday in the Netherlands and every question was the same exactly and in the exact same order. I went back to ebay and saw that the original user who emailed me the first time was all of a sudden not a registered user any longer. So I guess 2 different members just happened to have the same brother and wanted to send him thousands and thousands of dollars worth of computer equipment for his birthday. Lucky brother!
I also listed my powerbook in a classified ad after it was unsuccessful selling on ebay with several non-paying buyers. I got a phone call from a guy who said he was in San Francisco and wanted to do a direct deposit into my checking account at a local branch there. But he wanted me to ship it that day Overnight. At first I said that I could as long as he deposited the money that day. But then a couple of things started to seem strange. One was that the number he called me on was a local Chicago number, not San Fran. and 2nd was the fact that he sounded very young and wanted it overnight despite the fact that it cost 4x as much and ground would get it there in only 1-2days. If he was looking for a discount on a used item why would he pay 4x the cost just to get it 1 day earlier. There might be legit. reasons for all the things but they sounded suspicious. So I called my bank to ask them questions and found out that there would be no way to tell what type of deposit was made in the account for 2-3 business days. Because whether he deposited cash or a check it would still show as immediately available on my account. But if it was a check it would still have to clear in a few days. So I started thinking that maybe it was a con and he planned on using a stolen check or something and getting the item overnight days before I would find out that the deposit was a check and bounced or was stolen. I emailed him and told him that when he did the transaction in the bank to deposit cash only and that I would call the local branch afterwards and find out from the teller if it was cash or check. After I wrote that he stopped replying completely.
If anytime you feel suspicious about a transaction or uneasy just don't do it. Or make them do the most secure option for your side as possible and if they mysteriously disapear without a word after that it is a pretty good confirmation sign of your original intuition. The person I finally sold the display to was also in the U.K. and she had no problem sending a bank wire.
I have a valid reason for being jaded and suspicious. It is because there is so much fraud going on it is crazy. It happened to me that I feel for it back in 2000. Some lady wanted to pay for my laptop through COD overnight via Fedex... I never used it before and thought that it was safe, that I would be getting cash from her through Fedex when they delivered it. Instead I got back a completely fake Money Order she printed that night. I lost my laptop and never got the $3,000. The police, Fedex, no one cared or took any action. Fedex took no responsibility for accepting such an obvious fake check and instead kept billing me for the shipping cost for them giving away my laptop! It was obvious if they looked at it because they delivered it to a California address and the check was a cashiers check from Florida with that days date on it! Unless she happened to fly to Florida and went in to there bank there and got it and flew back instantly that day it was not possible to be real. Yet there employees don't even check the obvious details of the check they get before handing over merchandise. They'd probably even accept monopoly money for it!
Ugh. Anyways after that I still sold online but have been very careful. Nothing has ever happened again but I get approached with cons a lot.
For paypal now I will only accept it for transactions that qualify for there seller chargeback protection. So, U.S. Account shipped to there confirmed address. Or else I'm liable for any chargebacks due to stolen cards or whatever...
Western Union I guess someone could still use a stolen card for since they accept credit card payments on the senders end that they payout in a money order to the receiver. But I don't think you would be liable for it after you cash the MO. Just cash it before sending anything. Bank wires are the best IMO. Difficult for fraud with direct access to the account as opposed to checks etc.
The more I read about crap like this, the more pissed off I get and I think it's time to start calling some friends in high places. Anyone who has read more than one or two of my posts in other threads knows my position on governments trying to control the Internet or pretty much any aspect of our lives. Unfortunately though, it's going to take a little bit of legislation to fix buyer fraud.
The problem here falls back on the banks and how they CONTINUE to profit from fraud. As we all know, when a card holder does a charge-back the merchant's bank not only takes the money back but an additional "chargeback fee", usually around $25 but never less than $15. The first $15 of this fee goes to the card-issuing bank, and the rest, if any, goes to the seller's merchant provider.
Now think about this for a minute here - if a card holder has a 10% interest rate and buys a $100 item, it's going to take the bank an entire YEAR to make $10.00 off of them and that's ONLY if the card holder makes the minimum payment (only pays the interest). Plus they had to front the $100. When a chargeback is done, however, that card-issuing bank TAKES their $100 back and makes $15.00 RIGHT NOW for doing NOTHING! They didn't have to loan out $100, they got their money back. They don't care whether their customer received the item or not. They just put $15.00 in their pocket and gave their customer the thumbs up to go commit some more fraud because hey, 100% protection baby. I have lost charge-back disputes with a signed delivery confirmation. What the heck is that all about?
Ever wonder why you always see "100% protection against fraud" offers from credit card companies? Now you know - because they'll make more money off of you if you break the law and defraud innocent sellers.
Until laws are made that prevent banks from profiting from fraud, buyers will continue to commit it. Banks sure as heck aren't going to take this step to protect sellers themselves. I've actually brought this issue up once with the former Florida attorney general, but those guys are only interested in protecting the common consumer. The "businesses can afford to lose" mentality just ticks me off. Not all businesses can afford to lose, and even though some of us can doesn't make it RIGHT. We deserve not to be ripped off just as much as the consumer does.
I'm going to start lobbying the Attorney General and my state Senators again. I might even show some WebmasterWorld posts as a reference. If anyone else wants to join in, feel free ... but don't do it through e-mail. E-Mail is the lazy person's method of communication - phone calls are much stronger, they don't have time to think about a reply.
We need to send a clear message to the banks that we're tired of taking their crap.
My bank informed me that wire transfers can indeed be reversed. All wire trasnfers have to clear thru the Fed Reserve Bank, but often times the local bank will front the transfer into your account before it technically has cleared the Fed. They do that to meet their 24 hour clearance policies. They always check with the issuing bank by phone call befor doing this, but if if it seems legit (amounts match) they approve it into your account even though they haven't received formal notice from the Fed Reserve that it has cleared here.
If the next day it bounces the Fed Reserve, they wil reverse it in your account.
I was told that if I am concerned about that, I should always instruct the bank to track my deposit thru the Fed before making the funds available. They have always done it, and most times because they are watching it shaves a full day off the normal 2 day clear time (so I get it in 1-2 days).
