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On-line Payment Systems

Payment Systems, Which is best



9:16 pm on Jun 8, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member


I am a web trader in the UK. I would like some advice please on how best to get payment for goods from a shopper over the internet.

I have had worldpay.com credit card system for a few month and it has let me down badley because they do not ckeck out shoppers details. Not even the name or address against the card info. I have now heard about a .com called nochex.com [NOCHEX.com]. This seems like a great idea. But can I trust it ? and can shoppers trust it ?


10:43 am on Jun 9, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

Welcome to WebmasterWorld, paulclarke.

The nochex site looks like it's based on a very similar concept to PayPal, but not nearly as well known. I've never heard of them, but I know a lot of people who use PayPal, and use it myself. (paypal.com [paypal.com]).

I'm not aware of other international third party payment resources, but at Mal's Ecommerce there's a list of different providers. propay.com [propay.com] is very popular in the US, but I believe they're still limited to here. You might want to check out Mal's: www.mals-e.com [mals-e.com]


1:41 pm on Jun 9, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Previous discussions on this issue
Summer 2000 [webmasterworld.com]
Spring 2001 [webmasterworld.com]

Sites discussed there:
ccnow.com [ccnow.com]
propay.com [propay.com]
ibill.com [ibill.com]
clickbank.com [clickbank.com]
charge.com [charge.com]
worldpay.com [worldpay.com]
ccslide.com [ccslide.com]
verza.com [verza.com]
propay.com [propay.com]
paypal.com [paypal.com]
mals-e.com [mals-e.com]

One not discussed yet has been [url=2checkout.com]2checkout.com[/url] which was brought to my attention recently by a friend. They currently charge 5.5% per transcation + .45, $45 set up charge, but after that, no charges. No gateway, leasing, and they siphon the funds back to you twice a month. My friend takes a "light" amount of orders and has been happy. I will be launching a complete re-design of my site next month and unless I find a good reason NOT to go with them, they are my plan.

If any in this group has recent experiences to offer on any of these services, please, by all means . . .


4:29 pm on Jun 9, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I have been using 2checkout.com [2checkout.com] for long time now. And am glad to see their nice customer support and best of all, unlike other cc companies, you can have transactions for any amount.


8:36 pm on Jun 9, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Why not just go to the local bank and set up a merchant account?. it Is is way more cost effective than the alternatives that are being discussed. Am I missing something? (probably)!!


7:55 am on Jun 10, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

Well pmac the problem I have had with credit card payment is that which ever system you use 'Streamline' who clear most UK payments do NOT check the NAME or ADDRESS of the data given against the card holders info. I understand this is about to change, but it should have been done from DAY 1. Also not all banks are going to adopt the new system.

I would like to warn any company planning to supply goods by post to customers, that credit card payment/processing is not to be trusted. At the moment it is possbile to enter random credit card numbers on-line and be cleared. This has happended to me with worldpay.com.

I thought they were at least confirming the name matched the card holders name. But alas NOT!

This has now cost me about 1,000 in chargebacks.

I guess the reason we are more at risk on-line is because the crooks can keep trying numbers until they are correct plus if they have a stolen card they no they won't end up on CCTV.

I have been told by UK police that they are having big problems with this type of fraud.


3:18 pm on Jun 10, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

I think that most banks are coming around to this. In my instance, I process trasactions manually, but the system does cross referance card holder address info. I think you will find lots of banks that can set this type of system up for you. I don't know of any in the UK, but if readers of this post in the USA Would like to know about the system I use, just drop me a stickmail.


12:19 am on Jun 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

pmac, merchant account fee's very widely from bank to bank. From the extreme of liability insurance equiv to bricks and mortar, to percentages higher than those found online. It is a real mixed bag. I've had three and they were all very different.


12:53 am on Jun 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

Actually, they probably vary from country to country! I didnt even think of that. I shopped hard and heavy and pay 2.65% plus $25.00 USD for a terminal rental. When I owned a pure brick and mortar business in the same field, I was paying 2%. The Canadian banks wanted 3.5%, and when I decided to price my goods in USD (I am Canadian), I found the U.S banks far more receptive to e-commerce. A few drawbacks though. Most merchant account providers want a non-refunable application fee of between three and four hundred fifty dollars. I guess this kinda primed me for Y! and LS. :-)
It depends on sales volumes as well. If you fall below your projected volumes, then the percentage you pay can be reviewed.

I found the issue of payment processing to be one of the most frustrating, and challenging parts of setting up my e-commerce business. Stick with it Paulclarke, and good luck.


5:52 pm on Jun 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

One of the main problems with a standard merchant account to those just starting their businesses online is the minimums involved. Although the rates for charges vary widely, they all seem to have a policy about a certain amount of transactions per month or a minimum amount you must pay them. That can be a killer when you're just starting your site and don't get but a few customers for your first few months. Whether you actually make any sales or not, with a true merchant account, you're going to pay their ($15 to I've seen as high as $50) per month minimum...PLUS the Gateway fees.

Smaller businesses, just starting out need these ccnow.com's and 2checkout.com's that only charge you for actual transactions made, to be able to make it thru those first few months online before the sales really start to come. Of course there's a tradeoff. You pay a higher rate per transaction and usually they get to hold your money for a couple of weeks. The way to make them work effectively is to use them until you have that steady stream of sales each month to make a standard merchant account viable. (The breakover point seems to be about $700 in transactions per month). Then switch to a good merchant account. I've found goemerchant.com to be one of the lowest per transaction/monthly minimums/gateway charges around.

My plan (for those keeping score at home) is to stay with 2checkout.com for a few more months and then make the move to goemerchant.com.


9:47 pm on Jun 12, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

> paulclarke> This has now cost me about 1,000 in chargebacks.

That chargeback number is outrageous and there is no need for it if you have a good card processor. Verisign is very good: www.verisign.com

Also I don't know whether this US Merchant account does business with non-U.S. clients, but when I decided to start using an on line credit card purchase system I did a fair amount of research. The best I found at that time: 1 year ago, was: Unified Merchant Services ( [unifiedmerchants.com...] )for the Merchant Account, and Verisign
for the card processing system. I have been pleased with both, and found their fees to be reasonable, particularly Verisign is quite reasonable. Of course, you have to get a shopping cart that Verisign accepts and can interface with. I use coolcart
( www.coolcart.com ).

I don't want to be accused of pumping any of these 3 I mention, there are other good ones out there if you use the search engines, you will find them. But this asked for help, and this was my experience.

You can also find all-in-one systems where the shopping cart, merchant account and card processing system are all tied into one package. I found it cheaper to do it myself, with disparate but linkable resources.

I am not a real web guru type, but I also found this reasonably easy to accomplish.

Have had this for 1 year and am very happy. I had one chargeback, and that was my fault.


11:08 pm on Aug 26, 2001 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

This may be a bit late, but Paulclarke said:

>which ever system you use 'Streamline' who
>clear most UK payments do NOT check the
>NAME or ADDRESS of the data given against
>the card holders info
>I would like to warn any company planning
>to supply goods by post to customers, that
>credit card payment/processing is not to be
>trusted. At the moment it is possbile to
>enter random credit card numbers on-line
>and be cleared. This has happended to me
>with worldpay.com.
>I thought they were at least confirming the
>name matched the card holders name. But
>alas NOT!
>This has now cost me about 1,000 in

I'm an accredited partner of WorldPay and have been successfully trading on the net for 18 months or so, so I know a little bit about credit card payment systems.

AVI is now being implemented within the UK. I understand it's standard on transactions over 100.

Anyone accepting credit card payments over the net has other options to protect against fraud, and it's the retailer's responsibility to take up these options.

Upon receipt of the sale notification, the retailer can contact the customer to confirm that the sale is genuine. Purchasers have to provide contact details in order to get the goods delivered, and the retailer gets these before sending out goods. And let's face it, there's no point in a fraudster providing false contact details or they won't get the goods.

WorldPay actually provide an option deferral system whereby the transaction has to be approved by the retailer within 5 days or it will be cancelled. This gives the retailer 5 days in which to contact the customer to confirm the sale is genuine. A telephone call only costs a few pence ....

If a fraudulent transaction DOES take place, then the retailer can call in the police. The retailer will have contact details for the purchasers so the police at least have a chance of catching the fraudsters ...

WorldPay provide an anti-fraud guarantee such that the retailer won't lose out in the event of a fraudulent transaction taking place. This costs extra, but it's worth it if you do a lot of business over the net. Other card acceptance companies may also provide similar guarantees.

And when it comes to things like fraudulent purchase of downloadable software, what does the retailer actually lose ? Nothing but a bit of bandwidth. The software will still be there on the server to be downloaded again and again and again. Probably best for the retailer to just shrug it off.

If absolutely necessary, the retailer could obtain the fraudsters IP address from website log files and pass that to the police, but the police are unlikely to do much about it if that's all they have to go on. This will probably change in the future if the police (or maybe even the retailers) can have more sophisticated means of rapidly tracing an Internet user via their IP address.

And as a final thought, remember that ALL forms of retail are susceptible to theft. If you own a shop you may tag products or employ security guards to protect against shoplifters, and you may also have CCTV, but none of these can stop a determined thief. And if goods get stolen, the retailer has to swallow the cost (or pass it on to the legitimate customers).

IMO, the Internet is probably the safest form of retail as ALL internet use is traceable.


12:49 pm on Aug 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

The best I've found is ECHO and their ECHOnline service. 1.99% to 2.49% + .30 auth fee per transaction.

They have no charge for AVS, no charge for chargebacks (until your 6th in a month), no statement fee, no minimum, no equipment fee, no software fee, no lease, no gateway fee, and instant online approval through scripts they provide.

I can't find any other provider that has $0 in monthly fees.


3:23 am on Sep 1, 2001 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member

I am currently using 2checkout.com. They are really helpful and easy to work with. I definitely recommend them


3:59 am on Sep 11, 2001 (gmt 0)

But Card Services International is supposed to be the largest of them all. Why hasn't anyone mentioned them? I would like to know more about them.

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